Discussion:
Apple TV update soon?
(too old to reply)
Alan Browne
2019-11-03 23:22:23 UTC
Permalink
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).

What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
--
"Even with the brain dead, the pig's heart keeps on beating...
sort of like ... pick a Kardashian."
-Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown
nospam
2019-11-03 22:52:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
given that there was no october event and the appletv+ streaming
service just launched this past friday, it's unlikely (although not
impossible) that there will be a new apple tv hardware box.

perhaps wait another week just to be sure they don't do a press release
for another product, as they did with airpods pro, although any such
announcement is likely to be a macbook pro and/or airtags, which have
heavily been leaked by apple itself.
Alan Browne
2019-11-04 14:26:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
given that there was no october event and the appletv+ streaming
service just launched this past friday, it's unlikely (although not
impossible) that there will be a new apple tv hardware box.
perhaps wait another week just to be sure they don't do a press release
for another product, as they did with airpods pro, although any such
announcement is likely to be a macbook pro and/or airtags, which have
heavily been leaked by apple itself.
That's fine. I don't get the house's XMas gift until the 24th of Dec.
in any case.
--
"Even with the brain dead, the pig's heart keeps on beating...
sort of like ... pick a Kardashian."
-Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown
sms
2019-11-04 05:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
In the U.S., AT&T had the Apple TV 4K on sale for 50% off a couple of
days ago. Big price drops like that usually mean that there's an effort
to clear out stock prior to a new device being released, or it could
just be a freak sale. It's unclear what they would add to a newer model.
There are already 8K TVs out but they are a couple of years away from
becoming mainstream.

<https://www.theverge.com/good-deals/2019/11/1/20943512/apple-tv-4k-32gb-sale-deal-att>
Your Name
2019-11-04 06:15:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
In the U.S., AT&T had the Apple TV 4K on sale for 50% off a couple of
days ago. Big price drops like that usually mean that there's an effort
to clear out stock prior to a new device being released, or it could
just be a freak sale. It's unclear what they would add to a newer
model. There are already 8K TVs out but they are a couple of years away
from becoming mainstream.
<https://www.theverge.com/good-deals/2019/11/1/20943512/apple-tv-4k-32gb-sale-deal-att>
Maybe, maybe not. That was an 'Eraly Black Friday' deal though.

An Apple TV update could be about due (it's 780 days since hte last
update, which is just over the average number of days, but the numbers
vary widely between 231 days and 1097 days) ... BUT this article was
published on AppleInsider.com on Friday would seem to so no more
updates this year (no specific mention of the Apple TV at all) ...

Other than the Mac Pro, Apple may be done
with hardware releases for 2019
-----------------------------------------
November is here. A lack of an October event, history,
and comments made by Luca Maestri and Tim Cook suggest
strongly that Apple is sitting pat with its existing
hardware lineup for the holiday season.

Full article at
<https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/11/01/other-than-the-mac-pro-apple-may-be-done-with-hardware-releases-for-2019>
nospam
2019-11-04 14:52:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
In the U.S., AT&T had the Apple TV 4K on sale for 50% off a couple of
days ago. Big price drops like that usually mean that there's an effort
to clear out stock prior to a new device being released, or it could
just be a freak sale.
only if the price drops are available at *multiple* sellers, not only
one.
Post by sms
It's unclear what they would add to a newer model.
only for those who are not familiar with the product.
Post by sms
There are already 8K TVs out but they are a couple of years away from
becoming mainstream.
which means 8k is not a feature that would be added any time soon.
Lewis
2019-11-04 08:13:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
Very very close to 0.00000%
--
My little brother got his arm stuck in the microwave. So my mom had to
take him to the hospital. My grandma dropped acid this morning, and she
freaked out. She hijacked a busload of penguins. So it's sort of a
family crisis. Bye!
Alan Browne
2019-11-04 16:29:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
Very very close to 0.00000%
Pessimist. It's probably closer to 0.0%
--
"Even with the brain dead, the pig's heart keeps on beating...
sort of like ... pick a Kardashian."
-Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown
Jolly Roger
2019-11-04 17:23:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
A simple web search answers this better than anyone here will:

<https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Apple_TV>
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR
Lewis
2019-11-04 19:27:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
<https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Apple_TV>
That site is quite useful for computers and ipads and utterly useless
for the Apple TV.

There is nothing for the Apple TV to upgrade FOR. It already does $K
video and Atmos sound.
--
"A politician is a man who approaches every problem with an open mouth."
nospam
2019-11-04 23:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
There is nothing for the Apple TV to upgrade FOR. It already does $K
video and Atmos sound.
true, but video is just one aspect of what apple tv can do.

apple arcade is another, and a more up to date cpu & gpu than the a10x
would be very useful for the more demanding games.

it's not critical, but it's something worthwhile.

another reason for a new apple tv is for a lower cost of entry. apple
wants apple tv+ (the service) on as many devices as possible and the
best way to do that is have an <$50 device or even an <$100 device.
Lewis
2019-11-06 17:51:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Lewis
There is nothing for the Apple TV to upgrade FOR. It already does $K
video and Atmos sound.
true, but video is just one aspect of what apple tv can do.
And it can do everything with the current hardware.
Post by nospam
apple arcade is another, and a more up to date cpu & gpu than the a10x
would be very useful for the more demanding games.
Not really, no.
Post by nospam
another reason for a new apple tv is for a lower cost of entry. apple
wants apple tv+ (the service) on as many devices as possible and the
best way to do that is have an <$50 device or even an <$100 device.
That is a definite possibility, but a very remote one at this point.
--
When this kiss is over it will start again
But not be any different could be exactly the same
It's hard to imagine that nothing at all
Could be so exciting, could be this much fun
Alan Browne
2019-11-04 20:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
I did search and got many ambiguous leads. I didn't look at the
MacRumours site, however. (No time for all of them...).
Post by Jolly Roger
<https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Apple_TV>
Quote
Code found in an internal build of iOS 13 references a new Apple
TV 11,1 model, suggesting Apple is working on an updated Apple
TV. Little is known about the new device, but it could feature
an A12 processor. There's no word on when we can expect a
release, but it's possible this new Apple TV will debut
sometime this fall, perhaps around when the Apple TV+ streaming
service launches.
EndQuote
(from link to article on that page).

AppleTV+ has launched and no new Apple TV along with it.

Well not like we /need/ an Apple TV upgrade, so we could wait another
year unless the above comes sooner . (My television is a 2005 plasma
1080p that shows no urgent need for replacement either).
--
"Even with the brain dead, the pig's heart keeps on beating...
sort of like ... pick a Kardashian."
-Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown
Lewis
2019-11-04 22:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
Quote
Code found in an internal build of iOS 13 references a new Apple
TV 11,1 model, suggesting Apple is working on an updated Apple
TV. Little is known about the new device, but it could feature
an A12 processor. There's no word on when we can expect a
release, but it's possible this new Apple TV will debut
sometime this fall, perhaps around when the Apple TV+ streaming
service launches.
EndQuote
Everything starting with the word "Little" is completely made up.

IF there is a new device it is most likely to be a low-end device at a
low price point, possibly only running a limited subset of apps (the
streaming ones) and nothing more. Even then, I doubt it.

There is no reason for Apple to move to an A12 in the Apple TV, the A10X
Fusion is already far more power than the Apple TV needs.
--
Liberty means responsibility.
Jolly Roger
2019-11-04 23:48:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
I did search and got many ambiguous leads.
Time to learn how to discern baseless rumors for legitimate news.
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR
Alan Browne
2019-11-04 23:59:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by Alan Browne
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
I did search and got many ambiguous leads.
Time to learn how to discern baseless rumors for legitimate news.
That's why I looked at several, saw nothing conclusive, and asked here
where some people track the cycles closely and have a good feeling for it.

Further, your linked source said:
"...it's possible this new Apple TV will debut sometime
this fall, perhaps around when the Apple TV+ streaming
service launches."

That date has come and gone... so if nothing announces by Dec. 1, I'll
make my indecision then.
--
"Even with the brain dead, the pig's heart keeps on beating...
sort of like ... pick a Kardashian."
-Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown
sms
2019-11-05 01:15:15 UTC
Permalink
On 11/4/2019 3:59 PM, Alan Browne wrote:

<snip>
Post by Alan Browne
That date has come and gone... so if nothing announces by Dec. 1, I'll
make my indecision then.
Well in the U.S. you can buy a Samsung 4K Smart TV that supports Apple
TV for not much more than an Apple TV box. I.e. on November 22nd a
Samsung NU6950 43" TV is $229.99.

I wonder if the AT&T sale last week means that we'll see a price drop
before XMAS.

The trend of integrating the functionality of an Apple TV box or a Roku
box into the TV makes things a lot easier.
John McWilliams
2019-11-22 14:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
<snip>
Post by Alan Browne
That date has come and gone... so if nothing announces by Dec. 1, I'll
make my indecision then.
Well in the U.S. you can buy a Samsung 4K Smart TV that supports Apple
TV for not much more than an Apple TV box. I.e. on November 22nd a
Samsung NU6950 43" TV is $229.99.
I wonder if the AT&T sale last week means that we'll see a price drop
before XMAS.
The trend of integrating the functionality of an Apple TV box or a Roku
box into the TV makes things a lot easier.
Yes, indeed. And since you, Alan, have but an HD TV, 4K really makes a
difference, even with HD material.

Happy hunting!
Alan Browne
2019-11-22 18:18:54 UTC
Permalink
Since you, Alan, have but an HD TV, 4K really makes a
difference, even with HD material.
Not sure that makes much sense.

But moving forward...

1) the new Apple TV has features my old Apple TV does not have, and
2) it plays h.265 (where my old Apple TV does not), and
3) it's future proofing for when I do inevitably end up with a 4K TV.

An even newer AppleTV (which there is no sign of as yet) would be a
little better still, I assume.
--
"Even with the brain dead, the pig's heart keeps on beating...
sort of like ... pick a Kardashian."
-Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown
John McWilliams
2019-11-26 15:02:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
Since you, Alan, have but an HD TV, 4K really makes a difference, even
with HD material.
Not sure that makes much sense.
But moving forward...
1) the new Apple TV has features my old Apple TV does not have, and
2) it plays h.265 (where my old Apple TV does not), and
3) it's future proofing for when I do inevitably end up with a 4K TV.
An even newer AppleTV (which there is no sign of as yet) would be a
little better still, I assume.
It makes a ton of sense to upgrade your TV at a minimal cost. (Deducting
the cost of a standalone Apple TV from the set.)

A decent 4K set makes for a better HD picture, and UHD will knock your
socks off. ( DIRECTV, Netflix, Prime).
sms
2019-11-26 15:21:39 UTC
Permalink
On 11/26/2019 7:02 AM, John McWilliams wrote:

<snip>
Post by John McWilliams
It makes a ton of sense to upgrade your TV at a minimal cost. (Deducting
the cost of a standalone Apple TV from the set.)
A decent 4K set makes for a better HD picture, and UHD will knock your
socks off. ( DIRECTV, Netflix, Prime).
Definitely. Just did that a couple of days ago. The largest TV that will
fit in the space I have is 43" (amazing that 43" is considered small
since back in my day 19" was considered small and 25" was considered
large). $229.99 for a Samsung 6 Series 4K UHD. Includes Apple TV support
(as well as all the other smart TV apps). Eliminates the need for an
Apple TV or Roku box, and another remote. Also eliminates the training I
would have to provide.
JF Mezei
2019-11-26 20:42:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
large). $229.99 for a Samsung 6 Series 4K UHD. Includes Apple TV support
(as well as all the other smart TV apps). Eliminates the need for an
Apple TV or Roku box, and another remote. Also eliminates the training I
would have to provide.
Years ago, I bought a large Sharp TV. Had built-in apps for Netflix etc.
After about 1 year or two, software updates stopped. (and Sharp pulled
out of the Canadian market entirely).

Be weary or "proprietary" platforms where the manufacturer decides what
software upgrades you get because at the end of the day, your fancy TV
will only get software updates for limited time after which it becomes a
monitor and you still need to buy an external box like Apple TV or Roku
to get content.

If you get acces to some sort of "app store" for your TV, this is much
better as you may get access to apps for longer. But there is no
garantee those apps will work on your older TV set.

This is one area where Apple has been traditionally very good at:
allowing software updates and new apps on devices up to roughly 5 years
of age. And changing an Apple TV is a lot cheaper and less hassles than
changing a 60" TV just so you have newer software on it. Think of the
hassles of shipping and installing the new bolts, cradle and lifting
that 60" TV onto wall.
sms
2019-11-26 23:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by JF Mezei
Post by sms
large). $229.99 for a Samsung 6 Series 4K UHD. Includes Apple TV support
(as well as all the other smart TV apps). Eliminates the need for an
Apple TV or Roku box, and another remote. Also eliminates the training I
would have to provide.
Years ago, I bought a large Sharp TV. Had built-in apps for Netflix etc.
After about 1 year or two, software updates stopped. (and Sharp pulled
out of the Canadian market entirely).
Be weary or "proprietary" platforms where the manufacturer decides what
software upgrades you get because at the end of the day, your fancy TV
will only get software updates for limited time after which it becomes a
monitor and you still need to buy an external box like Apple TV or Roku
to get content.
Well since nearly every TV sold these days is a Smart TV, it's fine if
after five years I'm forced to buy a Roku or Apple TV, assuming the
whole TV is not replaced by then.

The upside of having a TV with all the apps integrated can be enormous.
How many couples do you know where one spouse has difficulty with video
sources?
sms
2019-12-01 20:49:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
<snip>
Post by John McWilliams
It makes a ton of sense to upgrade your TV at a minimal cost.
(Deducting the cost of a standalone Apple TV from the set.)
A decent 4K set makes for a better HD picture, and UHD will knock your
socks off. ( DIRECTV, Netflix, Prime).
Definitely. Just did that a couple of days ago. The largest TV that will
fit in the space I have is 43" (amazing that 43" is  considered small
since back in my day 19" was considered small and 25" was considered
large). $229.99 for a Samsung 6 Series 4K UHD. Includes Apple TV support
(as well as all the other smart TV apps). Eliminates the need for an
Apple TV or Roku box, and another remote. Also eliminates the training I
would have to provide.
On Friday I installed the new UHD Samsung TV. Apple TV+ is already
installed, no need to download it (I thought because it's a 2018 model
that I'd have to upgrade the firmware to support Apple TV+). There's no
programming on Apple TV+worth $4.99 per month for at this time though I
understand that most people are not paying anything for it because it's
included free for a year with the purchase of a new iPhone, iPad, iPod
touch, Apple TV, or Mac.

What would be worth $10=12 per month to a lot of people would be a
combination subscription of Apple Music, Apple News+, and Apple TV+.
Wish they'd add The Economist to Apple News+. This is something that
competitors like Spotify can't offer.
nospam
2019-12-01 21:03:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
There's no
programming on Apple TV+worth $4.99 per month for at this time
maybe for you, but many others find it well worth the price.
Post by Alan Browne
though I
understand that most people are not paying anything for it because it's
included free for a year with the purchase of a new iPhone, iPad, iPod
touch, Apple TV, or Mac.
there are more people who *haven't* purchased a new device than who
have.
Jolly Roger
2019-12-02 15:57:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
<snip>
Post by John McWilliams
It makes a ton of sense to upgrade your TV at a minimal cost.
(Deducting the cost of a standalone Apple TV from the set.)
A decent 4K set makes for a better HD picture, and UHD will knock
your socks off. ( DIRECTV, Netflix, Prime).
Definitely. Just did that a couple of days ago. The largest TV that
will fit in the space I have is 43" (amazing that 43" is considered
small since back in my day 19" was considered small and 25" was
considered large). $229.99 for a Samsung 6 Series 4K UHD. Includes
Apple TV support (as well as all the other smart TV apps). Eliminates
the need for an Apple TV or Roku box, and another remote. Also
eliminates the training I would have to provide.
It might make sense for fools, but not for the rest of us.

<https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/portland/news/press-releases/tech-tuesdaysmart-tvs/?=portland-field-office>

I refuse to use smart televisions because they have a horrible track
record for being abysmally insecure. It’s very clear security is an
afterthought at best for smart TV makers. If I did have to buy a smart
TV, I would be sure not to connect it to the internet - or even to my
home WiFi network. I'll always prefer to have a standard television with
an Apple TV connected to it. Apple has a proven track record with regard
to protecting your security and privacy.

I also avoid having any internet-enabled smart devices in my home, in
preference to devices that do not require connection to the internet for
normal operation for the same reason. The network cameras in my home,
for instance, do not need an Internet connection for me to use them.

But you do you.
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR
Alan Browne
2019-12-02 16:36:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jolly Roger
It might make sense for fools, but not for the rest of us.
<https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/portland/news/press-releases/tech-tuesdaysmart-tvs/?=portland-field-office>
I refuse to use smart televisions because they have a horrible track
record for being abysmally insecure. It’s very clear security is an
afterthought at best for smart TV makers. If I did have to buy a smart
TV, I would be sure not to connect it to the internet - or even to my
home WiFi network. I'll always prefer to have a standard television with
an Apple TV connected to it. Apple has a proven track record with regard
to protecting your security and privacy.
I also avoid having any internet-enabled smart devices in my home, in
preference to devices that do not require connection to the internet for
normal operation for the same reason. The network cameras in my home,
for instance, do not need an Internet connection for me to use them.
+10.

I've been shopping for a WiFi controlled electrical plug for outdoor
items that I want to program (time) but also be able to control remotely
for exceptions. Making sure that they're isolated from vendor or
other's participation is a high item on the priority list. I've found a
few.

The irksome thing is mainly that each needs an app so that your
smartphone can be used to relay the WiFi password to the device (I
assume over Bluetooth, but possibly over a temporary WiFi connection).
The fact that I'd put my WiFi passwords into an app, which may be
reporting home or elsewhere is not a happy thing ...

So I wonder if a procedure where I disconnect the WiFi from the modem,
set up the smartplug with its app on the local network, delete the app
and its data from the iPhone, and then re-connect the WiFi modem to the
modem will work. TBD.
nospam
2019-12-02 16:40:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
Post by Jolly Roger
I also avoid having any internet-enabled smart devices in my home, in
preference to devices that do not require connection to the internet for
normal operation for the same reason. The network cameras in my home,
for instance, do not need an Internet connection for me to use them.
+10.
I've been shopping for a WiFi controlled electrical plug for outdoor
items that I want to program (time) but also be able to control remotely
for exceptions. Making sure that they're isolated from vendor or
other's participation is a high item on the priority list. I've found a
few.
The irksome thing is mainly that each needs an app so that your
smartphone can be used to relay the WiFi password to the device (I
assume over Bluetooth, but possibly over a temporary WiFi connection).
The fact that I'd put my WiFi passwords into an app, which may be
reporting home or elsewhere is not a happy thing ...
use a separate wifi network, which can be firewalled.

this is where homekit is a *huge* plus, because you *don't* need the
manufacturer's app. you can run the device using apple's homekit app
(or any other third party homekit app).
Alan Browne
2019-12-02 16:50:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Alan Browne
Post by Jolly Roger
I also avoid having any internet-enabled smart devices in my home, in
preference to devices that do not require connection to the internet for
normal operation for the same reason. The network cameras in my home,
for instance, do not need an Internet connection for me to use them.
+10.
I've been shopping for a WiFi controlled electrical plug for outdoor
items that I want to program (time) but also be able to control remotely
for exceptions. Making sure that they're isolated from vendor or
other's participation is a high item on the priority list. I've found a
few.
The irksome thing is mainly that each needs an app so that your
smartphone can be used to relay the WiFi password to the device (I
assume over Bluetooth, but possibly over a temporary WiFi connection).
The fact that I'd put my WiFi passwords into an app, which may be
reporting home or elsewhere is not a happy thing ...
use a separate wifi network, which can be firewalled.
Good point - but may make remote control more difficult to setup.
Post by nospam
this is where homekit is a *huge* plus, because you *don't* need the
manufacturer's app. you can run the device using apple's homekit app
(or any other third party homekit app).
I was shopping based on the function of the device (outdoor suitability,
power, individual plug programming) which narrows the field. Nothing in
the Apple Store under Home Kit is meant for outdoor that I can see.
nospam
2019-12-02 16:56:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
Post by nospam
Post by Alan Browne
The irksome thing is mainly that each needs an app so that your
smartphone can be used to relay the WiFi password to the device (I
assume over Bluetooth, but possibly over a temporary WiFi connection).
The fact that I'd put my WiFi passwords into an app, which may be
reporting home or elsewhere is not a happy thing ...
use a separate wifi network, which can be firewalled.
Good point - but may make remote control more difficult to setup.
that depends how it's set up. if it's another access point on the lan,
then everything can see everything and there won't be any issue
controlling it.

ideally, use a vlan with appropriate rules, but that starts to get more
complicated.
Post by Alan Browne
Post by nospam
this is where homekit is a *huge* plus, because you *don't* need the
manufacturer's app. you can run the device using apple's homekit app
(or any other third party homekit app).
I was shopping based on the function of the device (outdoor suitability,
power, individual plug programming) which narrows the field. Nothing in
the Apple Store under Home Kit is meant for outdoor that I can see.
the apple store doesn't carry everything.

a quick search found these, and i'm sure there are more.

<https://store.idevicesinc.com/idevices-outdoor-switch/>
<https://www.ihomeaudio.com/iSP100BC/>
Alan Browne
2019-12-04 00:57:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Alan Browne
Post by nospam
Post by Alan Browne
The irksome thing is mainly that each needs an app so that your
smartphone can be used to relay the WiFi password to the device (I
assume over Bluetooth, but possibly over a temporary WiFi connection).
The fact that I'd put my WiFi passwords into an app, which may be
reporting home or elsewhere is not a happy thing ...
use a separate wifi network, which can be firewalled.
Good point - but may make remote control more difficult to setup.
that depends how it's set up. if it's another access point on the lan,
then everything can see everything and there won't be any issue
controlling it.
ideally, use a vlan with appropriate rules, but that starts to get more
complicated.
Post by Alan Browne
Post by nospam
this is where homekit is a *huge* plus, because you *don't* need the
manufacturer's app. you can run the device using apple's homekit app
(or any other third party homekit app).
I was shopping based on the function of the device (outdoor suitability,
power, individual plug programming) which narrows the field. Nothing in
the Apple Store under Home Kit is meant for outdoor that I can see.
the apple store doesn't carry everything.
a quick search found these, and i'm sure there are more.
<https://store.idevicesinc.com/idevices-outdoor-switch/>
<https://www.ihomeaudio.com/iSP100BC/>
Excellent. Thanks. I've been searching local stores and amazon.ca and
these didn't turn up.
nospam
2019-12-04 01:05:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
Post by nospam
Post by Alan Browne
I was shopping based on the function of the device (outdoor suitability,
power, individual plug programming) which narrows the field. Nothing in
the Apple Store under Home Kit is meant for outdoor that I can see.
the apple store doesn't carry everything.
a quick search found these, and i'm sure there are more.
<https://store.idevicesinc.com/idevices-outdoor-switch/>
<https://www.ihomeaudio.com/iSP100BC/>
Excellent. Thanks. I've been searching local stores and amazon.ca and
these didn't turn up.
try: outdoor homekit outlet and variants thereof.
Jolly Roger
2019-12-02 17:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Alan Browne
Post by Jolly Roger
I also avoid having any internet-enabled smart devices in my home, in
preference to devices that do not require connection to the internet for
normal operation for the same reason. The network cameras in my home,
for instance, do not need an Internet connection for me to use them.
+10.
I've been shopping for a WiFi controlled electrical plug for outdoor
items that I want to program (time) but also be able to control remotely
for exceptions. Making sure that they're isolated from vendor or
other's participation is a high item on the priority list. I've found a
few.
The irksome thing is mainly that each needs an app so that your
smartphone can be used to relay the WiFi password to the device (I
assume over Bluetooth, but possibly over a temporary WiFi connection).
The fact that I'd put my WiFi passwords into an app, which may be
reporting home or elsewhere is not a happy thing ...
use a separate wifi network, which can be firewalled.
this is where homekit is a *huge* plus, because you *don't* need the
manufacturer's app. you can run the device using apple's homekit app
(or any other third party homekit app).
HomeKit is nice, but even HomeKit-enabled devices can do stupid things
though. Some "smart" light bulbs cache the WiFi password with paltry
security, meaning if someone gains access to one of the bulbs, your WiFi
are belong to them.
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR
nospam
2019-12-02 17:13:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by nospam
this is where homekit is a *huge* plus, because you *don't* need the
manufacturer's app. you can run the device using apple's homekit app
(or any other third party homekit app).
HomeKit is nice, but even HomeKit-enabled devices can do stupid things
though. Some "smart" light bulbs cache the WiFi password with paltry
security, meaning if someone gains access to one of the bulbs, your WiFi
are belong to them.
apple takes security very seriously and homekit certification should
preclude that from happening.

non-homekit bulbs, sure. good luck with those.
Jolly Roger
2019-12-03 14:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by nospam
this is where homekit is a *huge* plus, because you *don't* need the
manufacturer's app. you can run the device using apple's homekit app
(or any other third party homekit app).
HomeKit is nice, but even HomeKit-enabled devices can do stupid things
though. Some "smart" light bulbs cache the WiFi password with paltry
security, meaning if someone gains access to one of the bulbs, your WiFi
are belong to them.
apple takes security very seriously and homekit certification should
preclude that from happening.
Does it though?
Post by nospam
non-homekit bulbs, sure. good luck with those.
I believe the one I’m thinking of was a Philips Hue bulb (which is HomeKit
compatible) where someone was able to grab the hashed WiFi password from
one of their bulbs and use it to Juni the network.
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR
nospam
2019-12-03 15:17:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by nospam
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by nospam
this is where homekit is a *huge* plus, because you *don't* need the
manufacturer's app. you can run the device using apple's homekit app
(or any other third party homekit app).
HomeKit is nice, but even HomeKit-enabled devices can do stupid things
though. Some "smart" light bulbs cache the WiFi password with paltry
security, meaning if someone gains access to one of the bulbs, your WiFi
are belong to them.
apple takes security very seriously and homekit certification should
preclude that from happening.
Does it though?
it should, but nothing is perfect.

a homekit device is a *much* safer bet than a non-homekit device and
certainly a noname device.

apple used to require a hardware encryption chip for homekit devices,
but that didn't go over well with manufacturers, so now it can be done
in software.
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by nospam
non-homekit bulbs, sure. good luck with those.
I believe the one I¹m thinking of was a Philips Hue bulb (which is HomeKit
compatible) where someone was able to grab the hashed WiFi password from
one of their bulbs and use it to Juni the network.
dunno about that one, but a discarded lifx bulb could have the wifi
password extracted, however, it's non-trivial and also been fixed.
<https://limitedresults.com/2019/01/pwn-the-lifx-mini-white/>

there was also an older hack for hue, which has also been fixed.
<https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/3/13507126/iot-drone-hack>
Jolly Roger
2019-12-03 23:00:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by nospam
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by nospam
this is where homekit is a *huge* plus, because you *don't* need the
manufacturer's app. you can run the device using apple's homekit app
(or any other third party homekit app).
HomeKit is nice, but even HomeKit-enabled devices can do stupid things
though. Some "smart" light bulbs cache the WiFi password with paltry
security, meaning if someone gains access to one of the bulbs, your WiFi
are belong to them.
apple takes security very seriously and homekit certification should
preclude that from happening.
Does it though?
it should, but nothing is perfect.
a homekit device is a *much* safer bet than a non-homekit device and
certainly a noname device.
Definitely agree there. I just worry about what remains outside of
Apple's influence.
Post by nospam
apple used to require a hardware encryption chip for homekit devices,
but that didn't go over well with manufacturers, so now it can be done
in software.
Yeah, I remember that.
Post by nospam
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by nospam
non-homekit bulbs, sure. good luck with those.
I believe the one I¹m thinking of was a Philips Hue bulb (which is HomeKit
compatible) where someone was able to grab the hashed WiFi password from
one of their bulbs and use it to Juni the network.
dunno about that one, but a discarded lifx bulb could have the wifi
password extracted, however, it's non-trivial and also been fixed.
<https://limitedresults.com/2019/01/pwn-the-lifx-mini-white/>
there was also an older hack for hue, which has also been fixed.
<https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/3/13507126/iot-drone-hack>
Right. I'm more worried about the vulnerabilities that *haven't* been
fixed - especially considering many makers don't have a shining record
of providing security updates in a timely, well-designed, or prolonged
fashion. : )
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR
Jolly Roger
2019-12-02 17:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
Post by Jolly Roger
It might make sense for fools, but not for the rest of us.
<https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/portland/news/press-releases/tech-tuesdaysmart-tvs/?=portland-field-office>
I refuse to use smart televisions because they have a horrible track
record for being abysmally insecure. It’s very clear security is an
afterthought at best for smart TV makers. If I did have to buy a
smart TV, I would be sure not to connect it to the internet - or even
to my home WiFi network. I'll always prefer to have a standard
television with an Apple TV connected to it. Apple has a proven track
record with regard to protecting your security and privacy.
I also avoid having any internet-enabled smart devices in my home, in
preference to devices that do not require connection to the internet
for normal operation for the same reason. The network cameras in my
home, for instance, do not need an Internet connection for me to use
them.
+10.
I've been shopping for a WiFi controlled electrical plug for outdoor
items that I want to program (time) but also be able to control
remotely for exceptions. Making sure that they're isolated from
vendor or other's participation is a high item on the priority list.
I've found a few.
I haven't had the need for one of those yet, but anticipate needing one
in the future. In the past I've used simple RF remote-controlled plugs
for that sort of thing, and I'd probably just use that as a fallback. I
would love it if you'd share a few of the brand names and models
you've found that meet that criteria when you have a chance.
Post by Alan Browne
The irksome thing is mainly that each needs an app so that your
smartphone can be used to relay the WiFi password to the device (I
assume over Bluetooth, but possibly over a temporary WiFi connection).
The fact that I'd put my WiFi passwords into an app, which may be
reporting home or elsewhere is not a happy thing ...
I have the same concern. It's been shown that with the right
vulnerability one can gain access to cached WiFi passwords on "smart"
devices. Strangers joining my WiFi network? No thanks.
Post by Alan Browne
So I wonder if a procedure where I disconnect the WiFi from the modem,
set up the smartplug with its app on the local network, delete the app
and its data from the iPhone, and then re-connect the WiFi modem to
the modem will work. TBD.
The work involved in sniffing the connection of "smart" devices during
that kind of setup / test is what has prevented me from doing it. I'm
too freaking busy to find the time. Luckily doing without hasn't been a
real problem so far. One day...
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR
Alan Browne
2019-12-04 00:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jolly Roger
Post by Alan Browne
Post by Jolly Roger
It might make sense for fools, but not for the rest of us.
<https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/portland/news/press-releases/tech-tuesdaysmart-tvs/?=portland-field-office>
I refuse to use smart televisions because they have a horrible track
record for being abysmally insecure. It’s very clear security is an
afterthought at best for smart TV makers. If I did have to buy a
smart TV, I would be sure not to connect it to the internet - or even
to my home WiFi network. I'll always prefer to have a standard
television with an Apple TV connected to it. Apple has a proven track
record with regard to protecting your security and privacy.
I also avoid having any internet-enabled smart devices in my home, in
preference to devices that do not require connection to the internet
for normal operation for the same reason. The network cameras in my
home, for instance, do not need an Internet connection for me to use
them.
+10.
I've been shopping for a WiFi controlled electrical plug for outdoor
items that I want to program (time) but also be able to control
remotely for exceptions. Making sure that they're isolated from
vendor or other's participation is a high item on the priority list.
I've found a few.
I haven't had the need for one of those yet, but anticipate needing one
in the future. In the past I've used simple RF remote-controlled plugs
<snippedd a lot>
Post by Jolly Roger
The work involved in sniffing the connection of "smart" devices during
that kind of setup / test is what has prevented me from doing it. I'm
too freaking busy to find the time. Luckily doing without hasn't been a
real problem so far. One day...
nospam has turned up some interesting candidates as I'm sure you noticed.
sms
2019-12-03 02:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jolly Roger
It might make sense for fools, but not for the rest of us.
<https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/portland/news/press-releases/tech-tuesdaysmart-tvs/?=portland-field-office>
I refuse to use smart televisions because they have a horrible track
record for being abysmally insecure. It’s very clear security is an
afterthought at best for smart TV makers. If I did have to buy a smart
TV, I would be sure not to connect it to the internet - or even to my
home WiFi network. I'll always prefer to have a standard television with
an Apple TV connected to it. Apple has a proven track record with regard
to protecting your security and privacy.
I also avoid having any internet-enabled smart devices in my home, in
preference to devices that do not require connection to the internet for
normal operation for the same reason. The network cameras in my home,
for instance, do not need an Internet connection for me to use them.
+10.
Watch out for those black helicopters too.

My smart TV has neither a microphone nor a camera. Of course it's about
the least expensive UHD TV on the market. It has three ports─two HDMI
ports and one TOSLINK port. If it did have a camera I would cover it.
And of course a Roku or Apple TV box also connects to the Internet. You
can set up a firewall to be safe and most routers have this capability.
I set my TVs and DVD players up with wired Ethernet but that's for
reliability and speed, not because of any fear of someone spying.

I guess if Kellyanne Conway got people to believe that Obama was spying
on them through their microwave ovens then anything is possible
<https://www.wired.com/2017/03/kellyanne-conway-microwave-spying/>/

In any case, I don't believe that it's even possible to buy a non-smart
new TV anymore so it's moot. Don't believe that just because you don't
hook up wired or wireless networking to your TV that it's not capable of
spying on you.

The only issue with Apple TV+ at this juncture is that there are only a
few programs available but that's not unexpected because it's so new.
It's not quite fair to judge it as a paid service because almost no one
is actually paying for it yet, but that hasn't stopped media outlets
from panning it, i.e.
<https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/2019/11/29/facebook-apple-5-g-smart-tvs-top-tech-turkey-2019/4303720002/>.
AppleTV+ will likely have 100 million subscribers in 2020 though not
paid subscribers.


They are getting signups because they're throwing it in free for a
year with purchases of new Apple products. By the time that year is up
they should have a lot more content and then it may be worth the $4.99
per month. But as I said before, what they could do to really upend
things is to offer a combination Apple Music, Apple Magazines, Apple TV+
combination subscription at a compelling price point, say $10-12 per
month for an individual subscription, and $20-24 per month for a family
subscription.
Jolly Roger
2019-12-03 14:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Post by Jolly Roger
It might make sense for fools, but not for the rest of us.
<https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/portland/news/press-releases/tech-tuesdaysmart-tvs/?=portland-field-office>
I refuse to use smart televisions because they have a horrible track
record for being abysmally insecure. It’s very clear security is an
afterthought at best for smart TV makers. If I did have to buy a smart
TV, I would be sure not to connect it to the internet - or even to my
home WiFi network. I'll always prefer to have a standard television with
an Apple TV connected to it. Apple has a proven track record with regard
to protecting your security and privacy.
I also avoid having any internet-enabled smart devices in my home, in
preference to devices that do not require connection to the internet for
normal operation for the same reason. The network cameras in my home,
for instance, do not need an Internet connection for me to use them.
+10.
Watch out for those black helicopters too.
Keep you head buried, fool.

<https://techcrunch.com/2019/12/01/fbi-smart-tv-security/>
Post by sms
My smart TV has neither a microphone nor a camera.
It can still report everything you do to the manufacturer, be exploited to
gain access to your network, and so on.
Post by sms
Of course it's about
the least expensive UHD TV on the market. It has three ports─two HDMI
ports and one TOSLINK port. If it did have a camera I would cover it.
Which wouldn’t prevent audio recording or other vulnerability exploits.
Post by sms
And of course a Roku or Apple TV box also connects to the Internet.
Go ahead and show us all of the ways people have gained access to Apple TV
devices. We’ll wait.

While we wait:

<https://www.wired.com/story/chromecast-roku-sonos-dns-rebinding-vulnerability/>

<https://www.consumerreports.org/televisions/samsung-roku-smart-tvs-vulnerable-to-hacking-consumer-reports-finds/>
Post by sms
You
can set up a firewall to be safe and most routers have this capability.
Not only is that a headache that most people won’t bother with (assuming
they’re even know how), it’s also just a bandaid that doesn’t address the
lack of security and privacy protections of the device.
Post by sms
I set my TVs and DVD players up with wired Ethernet but that's for
reliability and speed, not because of any fear of someone spying.
It also don’t prevent someone who gains access to the device from accessing
the rest of your network.
Post by sms
I guess if Kellyanne Conway got people to believe that Obama was spying
on them through their microwave ovens then anything is possible
<https://www.wired.com/2017/03/kellyanne-conway-microwave-spying/>/
Only a complete fool would equate that asinine claim with actual security
and privacy vulnerabilities. And only a troll would suggest anyone who
recognizes actual vulnerabilities would fall for that.
Post by sms
In any case, I don't believe that it's even possible to buy a non-smart
new TV anymore so it's moot.
Nonsense. Nobody forces you to use the smart features or join your
television to your network.
Post by sms
Don't believe that just because you don't
hook up wired or wireless networking to your TV that it's not capable of
spying on you.
You’re clueless.
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR
Lewis
2019-11-26 15:59:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McWilliams
Post by Alan Browne
Since you, Alan, have but an HD TV, 4K really makes a difference, even
with HD material.
Not sure that makes much sense.
But moving forward...
1) the new Apple TV has features my old Apple TV does not have, and
2) it plays h.265 (where my old Apple TV does not), and
3) it's future proofing for when I do inevitably end up with a 4K TV.
An even newer AppleTV (which there is no sign of as yet) would be a
little better still, I assume.
It makes a ton of sense to upgrade your TV at a minimal cost. (Deducting
the cost of a standalone Apple TV from the set.)
A decent 4K set makes for a better HD picture, and UHD will knock your
socks off. ( DIRECTV, Netflix, Prime).
Disney+ and Apple TV+ will provide the best HDR experience as they are
sending the highest quality streams. Have watched quite a few HDR movies
from Disney+ and they look amazingly good.

The difference between 1080p and 4K on a 50" screen at normal viewing
distance is minimal, but the difference with HDR is remarkable. HBR is
the reason to get a 4K TV.

In addition, at least my TCL does a great job of upsampling content. I
watched an old DVD rip I had of The Court Jester with Danny Kaye (The
"flagon with the dragon" movie) on a 1080p display almost a decade old
and it was muddy and blurry and looked like shit. I watched the exact
same file on the TCL and it looked like it was an HD copy of the movie.

A 43" TCL with Dolby Vision HDR can be bought on Amazon for about $300
or a 65" QLED model for $800.
--
"Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence." - H. L.
Mencken
Alan Browne
2019-12-04 01:08:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McWilliams
Post by Alan Browne
Since you, Alan, have but an HD TV, 4K really makes a difference,
even with HD material.
Not sure that makes much sense.
But moving forward...
1) the new Apple TV has features my old Apple TV does not have, and
2) it plays h.265 (where my old Apple TV does not), and
3) it's future proofing for when I do inevitably end up with a 4K TV.
An even newer AppleTV (which there is no sign of as yet) would be a
little better still, I assume.
It makes a ton of sense to upgrade your TV at a minimal cost. (Deducting
the cost of a standalone Apple TV from the set.)
A decent 4K set makes for a better HD picture, and UHD will knock your
socks off. ( DIRECTV, Netflix, Prime).
I'm sure you're right, but given the content we watch of late (heavy on
documentaries, light on 'wow') it's not urgent.

I could run out right now to Costco and come back with something great.
(I'd have to hurry, they close in 22 minutes...).

But I have a very anti-consumerism bent where electronics are concerned.
I tend to buy well and timely and use for a long time.

Life has taught me that there is not much urgency where such is
concerned ... it's always going to be much, much better tomorrow, so no
rush right now.

Neill Massello
2019-11-04 20:49:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
Heard on NPR this morning that consumers are buying Christmas stuff
earlier and that retailers now regard 1 November as the start of the
holiday buying season. (I noticed during the Sunday football games that
they're already running those snow and ribbons ads for luxury cars.) So
if Apple wants to push a new TV box as 'tronics for Christmas, they'd
better roll it out soon.
Alan Browne
2019-11-04 20:53:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neill Massello
Post by Alan Browne
I'm considering the 4K AppleTV and perusing MacTracker I see the line
was updated in 2015 (HD) and 2017 (4K) (Sept in each case).
What's the likelihood they update before, say, Christmas this year?
Heard on NPR this morning that consumers are buying Christmas stuff
earlier and that retailers now regard 1 November as the start of the
I think retailers have done so for the last 30+ years. As soon as
Halloween ends up go the Christmas decorations (well, they start).

BFCM has also distorted things hugely. I could happily castrate (yes,
with a very dull knife) the idiot who started that.
Post by Neill Massello
holiday buying season. (I noticed during the Sunday football games that
they're already running those snow and ribbons ads for luxury cars.) So
if Apple wants to push a new TV box as 'tronics for Christmas, they'd
better roll it out soon.
I usually do 95% of my Christmas shopping on Dec 24 from 13:00 to 17:00
when the stores close... though that has changed in the last few years a
little.
--
"Even with the brain dead, the pig's heart keeps on beating...
sort of like ... pick a Kardashian."
-Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown
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