Discussion:
Is Apple acknowledging that many users want an active stylus on their phones?
(too old to reply)
Arlen Holder
2018-08-17 15:24:17 UTC
Permalink
It is comparing the features of Android devices with those of iOS
devices. Since the two ecosystems tend to copy features from each other,
in both directions, for better (styluses, larger screens, IP67/68 etc.)
or worse (loss of headphone jacks, loss of MicroSD card slots, "the
notch") it is certainly relevant.
I have two points of view, one for each of those two topics, where, as sms
knows, I have had (& still have) _both_ iOS and Android devices for years.

1. The stylus (is it really useful?)
2. Copying features (it's not what you think)

STYLUS:
I have an LG Stylo 3 Plus Android phone, which comes with a stylus, but
which I haven't found a use for yet that isn't anything I want to do.

If there is a good use, let me know - as I'm not good with one-finger
keyboards either - but the stylus doesn't seem to be any faster or more
accurate in writing-to-letter tests of mine.

I don't "draw" on my phone - so I'm not sure what good the stylus is for me
other than for "text" but I also suck at leaving myself memos so if there
was a great way to leave myself timed to-do notes, that would be great if
the stylus works for that in as few clicks as possible (preferably a singe
action for such things is desired).

COPYING:
While the highly marketed "stylish" Android phones *do* copy what Apple
leads with (e.g., no battery replacement, no headphone jack, no sdcard
slot, super high price, etc.), I think the "basic" Android phones do not
always copy what the highly marketed phones do.

For example, removable batteries is a bonus to the consumer, as is an sd
slot, as is a headphone jack - where the main reason marketing loves
removing those features, IMHO, is that they can LOCK the consumer into
their proprietary solutions.

Apple is the *best* in the world in *locking the consumer* into proprietary
features, where I think it's sad that the highly marketed Android phones
copy suite.

Still - the less marketed phones (e.g., the $130 8-core LG Stylo 3 Plus,
which costs five times less than the far-less-functional but let's call it
essentially hardware equivalent 3-core iPhone 7 Plus - has *all* those
hardware features - and more...
a. Removable battery
b. 2TB sd card slot
c. headphone jack

My main point is that not all the Android devices are copying the highly
marketed ways of Android.

A side note is that if the consumer refuses to purchase these expensive
limited restricted Android iPhone copies, the consumer will win in the end.

It's like refusing to purchase highly marketed drugs from a drug dealer.
abcdef
2018-08-17 17:15:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arlen Holder
removable batteries is a bonus to the consumer
I like it that when I drop my phone it no longer breaks into 3 pieces
(battery, cover, phone). I've yet to have to replace a battery because
of old age before I WANTED a new phone (usually around 2 years). I like
the smaller phone case possible by eliminating the removable battery.
The wife's iPhone 6+ recently suffered from a swollen battery. It was
not difficult to replace (about 30 minutes of my labor) and cost US$30
including tools. YMMV.
Post by Arlen Holder
as is an sd slot
With the large amount of internal storage available in my current
Android phone I have yet to need an SD card. YMMV.
Post by Arlen Holder
as is a headphone jack
Agreed. I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to
complain about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV thing...
nospam
2018-08-17 17:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by abcdef
Post by Arlen Holder
as is a headphone jack
Agreed. I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to
complain about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV thing...
it has a digital headphone jack and includes headphones in the box as
well as an adapter for legacy analog headphones. it also fully supports
all bluetooth headsets and headphones. it's a complete non-issue.

it's also nothing new. the first android phone, back in 2008, also had
a digital headphone jack, except that used a non-standard ext-usb jack.
<https://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/confirmed-t-mobile-g1-has-no-3-5mm-
headphone-jack/>
abcdef
2018-08-17 18:01:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to complain
about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV thing...
it has a digital headphone jack and includes headphones in the box
One size headphone fits all? No thanks. YMMV.
Post by nospam
as well as an adapter for legacy analog headphones.
Having a headphone dongle dangling? No thanks. YMMV.
Post by nospam
it also fully supports all bluetooth headsets and headphones.
Bluetooth? More cost, battery charge hassle, and bulk. No thanks. YMMV.
Post by nospam
it's a complete non-issue.
It's an issue for me. And I suppose it is for all those others
complaining about phones with no earphone hole.
Post by nospam
it's also nothing new. the first android phone, back in 2008, also
had a digital headphone jack, except that used a non-standard ext-usb
jack.
That type of Android phone appears to have died out. Wonder why...
nospam
2018-08-17 18:42:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to complain
about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV thing...
it has a digital headphone jack and includes headphones in the box
One size headphone fits all? No thanks. YMMV.
most people use the headphones in the box (or they use the speakers
built into the phone). there are also numerous third party headphones.
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
as well as an adapter for legacy analog headphones.
Having a headphone dongle dangling? No thanks. YMMV.
nothing dangles, other than the wires that normally would.
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
it also fully supports all bluetooth headsets and headphones.
Bluetooth? More cost, battery charge hassle, and bulk. No thanks. YMMV.
no hassles and no bulk, nor any dangling wires to get caught on
anything.

some even fit entirely in the ear, which is as bulk-free as it gets:
<https://i2.wp.com/www.automatedhome.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/br
agi-headphone-in-ear.jpg>
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
it's a complete non-issue.
It's an issue for me. And I suppose it is for all those others
complaining about phones with no earphone hole.
people love to complain, yet sales keep going up as more manufacturers
move to digital headphone jacks.

analog headphone jacks are obsolete.
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
it's also nothing new. the first android phone, back in 2008, also
had a digital headphone jack, except that used a non-standard ext-usb
jack.
That type of Android phone appears to have died out. Wonder why...
it didn't.

there are currently a *lot* of android phones with usb-c headphone
jacks, including the google pixel, considered to be 'pure android', the
essential phone from andy rubin, who created android, as well as
several other major device makers, including motorola and htc as well
as several smaller and lesser known manufacturers.

<https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/04/google-dropped-the-pixels-headphone-j
ack-to-lay-the-groundwork-for-a-bezel-free-phone/>
³The primary reason [for dropping the jack] is establishing a
mechanical design path for the future,² Google product chief Mario
Queiroz told TechCrunch after the event. ³We want the display to go
closer and closer to the edge.

<https://www.businessinsider.com/htc-u11-life-headphone-jack-usb-c-noise-
canceling-headphones-2017-11>
HTC ditched the headphone jack on its new smartphone ‹ but replaced
it with something way better
...
At this stage in the game, that's hardly a surprise. Most smartphone
makers are ditching the traditional headphone jack to make phones
thinner and to embrace the wireless-headphones revolution. Even
Google, which poked fun at Apple last year for removing the headphone
jack, got rid of it on this year's Pixel 2.
...
But wait, it gets better: USB-C ports are able to power things that
are plugged into them, which means that a pair of pretty standard,
free earbuds are able to become noise canceling.

<https://www.androidcentral.com/moto-z-doesnt-have-headphone-jack>
The Z does have a USB Type-C port, which does an excellent job of
outputting digital audio. Our own Michael Fisher has confirmed that
the Moto Z comes with a USB-C headphone adapter, which should convert
the audio into analog so you can plug in the headphones you already
have to listen to music or watch a movie or even talk on (or to) your
phone.
abcdef
2018-08-17 20:26:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
Post by abcdef
I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to
complain about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV
thing...
it has a digital headphone jack and includes headphones in the box
One size headphone fits all? No thanks. YMMV.
most people use the headphones in the box
MOST people? So you surveyed how many millions of Apple users then? My
GUESS is that MOST people are like my wife and don't use the included
headphones at all.
Post by nospam
(or they use the speakers built into the phone)
Course. Everyone uses the built in phone speakers for Facebook etc, even
me. But for listening to quality music (local or streaming) the speakers
suck.
Post by nospam
there are also numerous third party headphones.
Perhaps. But my local stores carry STANDARD headphones in droves whereas
the Apple aisle has only one or two.
Post by nospam
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
as well as an adapter for legacy analog headphones.
Having a headphone dongle dangling? No thanks. YMMV.
nothing dangles, other than the wires that normally would.
Yeah, the dongle really does dangle. AGAIN YMMV.
Post by nospam
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
it also fully supports all bluetooth headsets and headphones.
Bluetooth? More cost, battery charge hassle, and bulk. No thanks. YMMV.
no hassles and no bulk, nor any dangling wires to get caught on
anything.
Agreed the wires can be a pain. But the battery IMO is a bigger pain.
And the Bluetooth headphones I've tried can't produce the volume I like.
Simpler is often better.
Unfortunately the tiny Bluetooth models I've tried sacrifice battery
life and are volume starved.
Post by nospam
analog headphone jacks are obsolete.
Obsolete? Maybe someday. But as long as millions of phones currently
have them, not so much. We had this discussion over 2 years ago. So far
your prediction of the death of the audio hole has been greatly
exaggerated...
Post by nospam
there are currently a *lot* of android phones with usb-c headphone
jacks, including the google pixel, considered to be 'pure android',
PURE Android? Is that like PURE Linux?
Post by nospam
the essential phone from andy rubin, who created android, as well as
several other major device makers, including motorola...
Glad my Motorola phone is still holy (hole-ee, get it? Sorry.)
Post by nospam
At this stage in the game, that's hardly a surprise. Most smartphone
makers are ditching the traditional headphone jack to make phones
thinner and to embrace the wireless-headphones revolution. Even
Google, which poked fun at Apple last year for removing the
headphone jack, got rid of it on this year's Pixel 2.
Whatever sells the most cells (phones) will win.
Post by nospam
the Moto Z comes with a USB-C headphone adapter, which should
convert the audio into analog so you can plug in the headphones you
already have to listen to music or watch a movie or even talk on (or
to) your phone.
While I will miss the audio hole I won't miss the micro-USB connector.
It will be nice to plug a cable in and get it right on the first try.
Fortunately that's not a big problem on my Motorola phone with its
wireless charging and easy-to-plug-in audio jack (no dongle needed)...
nospam
2018-08-17 21:31:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
Post by abcdef
I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to
complain about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV thing...
it has a digital headphone jack and includes headphones in the box
One size headphone fits all? No thanks. YMMV.
most people use the headphones in the box
MOST people? So you surveyed how many millions of Apple users then? My
GUESS is that MOST people are like my wife and don't use the included
headphones at all.
there are four groups of users, and not only apple:
- those who use the bundled headphones
- those who do not use any headphones (i.e., use the built in speakers)
- those who use bluetooth headphones
- those who use headphones they already own, generally high end, with a
3.5mm plug.

only the last group is affected by the change, which is why an adapter
is included.

the other three groups are not affected at all.

group 1 can use the bundled headphones.
group 2 doesn't use any headphones.
group 3 only needs to pair their bluetooth headphones with the phone.

apple knows what the breakdown is.
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
(or they use the speakers built into the phone)
Course. Everyone uses the built in phone speakers for Facebook etc, even
me. But for listening to quality music (local or streaming) the speakers
suck.
they're not that bad, but again, no need for an analog jack since you
can pair with bluetooth speakers.
Post by abcdef
Post by nospam
there are also numerous third party headphones.
Perhaps. But my local stores carry STANDARD headphones in droves whereas
the Apple aisle has only one or two.
most of which are not as good as the ones bundled in the box.

or just order online.

meanwhile, bluetooth headphones are outselling wired headphones, and
these numbers are from *before* the iphone 7:
<https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/2016/bluetoot
h-capable-headphone-sales-surpass-non-bluetooth-sales/>
While the headphone category saw a 7 percent year-over-year incr