Ultra Wide Band?

Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

Jörg Lorenz

2024-04-19 20:48:47 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
turn it off and on:

https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Cameo

2024-04-20 03:15:03 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios

Fine, but I couldn’t find even that on-off switch.

Jörg Lorenz

2024-04-20 05:21:24 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios

Fine, but I couldn’t find even that on-off switch.

The Flight Mode turns ist off as explained in the article.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Jolly Roger

2024-04-20 05:33:35 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios

Fine, but I couldn’t find even that on-off switch.

Airplane Mode turns it off. Pretty sure you were already told that once.

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Cameo

2024-04-20 22:49:33 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios

Fine, but I couldn’t find even that on-off switch.

Airplane Mode turns it off. Pretty sure you were already told that once.

Airplane mode turns off all rádios, so that’s not much of a clue for most
people.

Jörg Lorenz

2024-04-21 09:55:09 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios

Fine, but I couldn’t find even that on-off switch.

Airplane Mode turns it off. Pretty sure you were already told that once.

Airplane mode turns off all rádios, so that’s not much of a clue for most
people.

Then it works as intended by the manufacturer. For security reasons.

--
"Mille viae ducunt hominem per saecula Romam." (Alanus ab Insulis 1120-1202)

Wolf Greenblatt

2024-04-21 14:12:16 UTC

Post by Cameo
Airplane mode turns off all rádios, so that’s not much of a clue for most
people.

Then it works as intended by the manufacturer. For security reasons.

Correction. It works as Apple intended. For profit reasons.

Ethical OEMs allow the user to turn just UWB off. For privacy reasons.

Jolly Roger

2024-04-21 16:33:12 UTC

Post by Cameo
Airplane mode turns off all rádios, so that’s not much of a clue for
most people.

Then it works as intended by the manufacturer. For security reasons.

Correction. It works as Apple intended. For profit reasons.

Nonsense. There's no profit motive here.

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JR

Wolf Greenblatt

2024-04-21 18:20:44 UTC

Post by Wolf Greenblatt
Correction. It works as Apple intended. For profit reasons.

Nonsense. There's no profit motive here.

Rest assured Apple didn't put a circa $20 chip for non-profit reasons,
given Apple does nothing that doesn't eke more money out of its owners.

More to the OP's point though, especially given the obvious huge privacy
implications, is why do you think Apple doesn't provide UWB on/off control.

Why does every phone EXCEPT Apple's iPhone provide that basic privacy?

Alan

2024-04-21 21:09:52 UTC

Post by Wolf Greenblatt
Correction. It works as Apple intended. For profit reasons.

Nonsense. There's no profit motive here.

Rest assured Apple didn't put a circa $20 chip for non-profit reasons,
given Apple does nothing that doesn't eke more money out of its owners.

The "profit motive" is to give its customers a useful technology.

Post by Wolf Greenblatt
More to the OP's point though, especially given the obvious huge privacy
implications, is why do you think Apple doesn't provide UWB on/off control.
Why does every phone EXCEPT Apple's iPhone provide that basic privacy?

It's a consppiiiiiiiirrrrrraacccyyyyyy!

Alan Browne

2024-04-22 22:42:11 UTC

Post by Wolf Greenblatt
Correction. It works as Apple intended. For profit reasons.

Nonsense. There's no profit motive here.

Rest assured Apple didn't put a circa $20 chip for non-profit reasons,
given Apple does nothing that doesn't eke more money out of its owners.

The main purpose of UWB (so far) is for object locating (such as AirTag
and AirPods).
I suspect their line cost is more like $2 if not less for the device in
question. Not that it matters, Apple don't charge prices according to
manufactured costs. You should know that.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

Alan

2024-04-21 17:05:33 UTC

Post by Cameo
Airplane mode turns off all rádios, so that’s not much of a clue for most
people.

Then it works as intended by the manufacturer. For security reasons.

Correction. It works as Apple intended. For profit reasons.
Ethical OEMs allow the user to turn just UWB off. For privacy reasons.

What "profit reason" would that have been?

Jörg Lorenz

2024-04-22 05:42:53 UTC

Post by Cameo
Airplane mode turns off all rádios, so that’s not much of a clue for most
people.

Then it works as intended by the manufacturer. For security reasons.

Correction. It works as Apple intended. For profit reasons.
Ethical OEMs allow the user to turn just UWB off. For privacy reasons.

Arlen, you are trolling again.

--
"Mille viae ducunt hominem per saecula Romam." (Alanus ab Insulis 1120-1202)

Your Name

2024-04-20 06:18:04 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios

Fine, but I couldn’t find even that on-off switch.

The Ultra Wideband system doesn't have nor need any user-level
modification, so there is no specific "on-off switch" for it. It is
automatically turned off and on as part of the function of the Airplane
Mode switch on iPhone 11 and newer:

Ultra Wideband must be turned off when onboard aircraft, ships,
and other prohibited regions by turning on airplane mode. To turn
on airplane mode, open Control Center, then tap plane icon. You
can also turn airplane mode on or off in Settings. When airplane
mode is on, the plane icon appears in the status bar.

Ultra Wideband is also not available in a few countries:
- Armenia
- Azerbaijan
- Belarus
- Indonesia
- Kazakhstan
- Kyrgyzstan
- Nepal
- Russia
- Tajikistan
- Turkmenistan
- Ukraine
- Uzbekistan

Larry Wolff

2024-04-19 23:31:50 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

I didn't know what UWB was for on a smartphone, so I looked it up.
"UWB allows short-range wireless communication for precise location
tracking, keyless car entry, data transfer, and other features on
compatible Android and Apple phones."

UWB is apparently a component of all iPhones from the iPhone 11 on up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UWB-enabled_mobile_devices

Looking up what people use it for, apparently it works with cars too.
"UWB was developed as a protocol to transfer data. Its ability to detect
and track nearby objects made it essential for modern devices and cars.
Select BMW, Audi, Ford, Tesla, and Hyundai models support digital car key
via UWB and/or NFC for keyless entry."

On both Android & on iOS you just turn it on or off, and that's it.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254750118?sortBy=best

But you don't turn it on if you don't have a use for it, normally anyway.
Which of those are you seeking to use the UWB for?

Keyless car entry:
With a UWB-powered phone, you don't need to pull out the device and hover
over the car handle to unlock it. You can keep your phone in your pocket
and let UWB authenticate your identity in no time.

Device tracking:
You can attach a smart tracker, like the Galaxy SmartTag, to your wallet,
pet, or bike and track precise locations in real time.

Smart home automation:
Your home can unlock itself via UWB when it detects your phone in your
pocket. Your smart devices, like fans, AC, and lights, can also communicate
when you enter the room.

Alan Browne

2024-04-20 12:29:16 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.

UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate transfers
and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office" function that the
user doesn't need to worry about much.

(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data transfer in
Apple devices).

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

Cameo

2024-04-20 22:49:34 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate transfers
and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office" function that the
user doesn't need to worry about much.
(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data transfer in
Apple devices).

That’s it: how do I know UWB is on? I have a feeling Android phones show it
with little icon on the top 5 mm of the screen the way they used to
indicate if 3G or 4G/LTE was being used. Apple likes to keep us in the
dark, sp it seems.

Jolly Roger

2024-04-21 16:34:08 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate transfers
and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office" function that the
user doesn't need to worry about much.
(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data transfer in
Apple devices).

That’s it: how do I know UWB is on?

Why should I care whether it's on?

--
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JR

Nick Cine

2024-04-21 18:24:53 UTC

That's it: how do I know UWB is on?

Why should I care whether it's on?

There are two fundamental reasons to care about the UWB radio, maybe
neither of which YOU care about - but many others do care about them.

Your Name

2024-04-21 21:02:58 UTC

That's it: how do I know UWB is on?

Why should I care whether it's on?

There are two fundamental reasons to care about the UWB radio, maybe
neither of which YOU care about - but many others do care about them.

Mainly in the minds of conspiracy nutters who think the entire world is
out to get them. :-\

Jolly Roger

2024-04-21 23:44:34 UTC

That's it: how do I know UWB is on?

Why should I care whether it's on?

There are two fundamental reasons to care about the UWB radio, maybe
neither of which YOU care about - but many others do care about them.

Must be really important considering your inability to articulate either
of them.

--
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JR

Nick Cine

2024-04-22 01:32:45 UTC

That's it: how do I know UWB is on?

Why should I care whether it's on?

There are two fundamental reasons to care about the UWB radio, maybe
neither of which YOU care about - but many others do care about them.

Must be really important considering your inability to articulate either
of them.

You're arguing it's not needed, and not wanted - yet you don't understand
it. Consider it obvious that only Apple doesn't allow you to turn UWB off.

Every other phone made with UWB allows a separate on/off control for the
obvious two reasons, which, if you don't know, you know nothing about UWB.

Jolly Roger

2024-04-22 03:04:01 UTC

That's it: how do I know UWB is on?

Why should I care whether it's on?

There are two fundamental reasons to care about the UWB radio, maybe
neither of which YOU care about - but many others do care about them.

Must be really important considering your inability to articulate
either of them.

You're arguing

I haven't argued anything, troll boy. I asked a question, and you have
failed to answer. You must have the mental and emotional capacity of a
child to think that asking a legitimate question and expecting an honest
answer is "arguing".

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Nick Cine

2024-04-22 03:26:26 UTC

Post by Jolly Roger
I asked a question, and you have
failed to answer. You must have the mental and emotional capacity of a
child to think that asking a legitimate question and expecting an honest
answer is "arguing".

The answer is obvious to all (except you, it seems) so for you to say the
UWB switch is not needed & not wanted is you being the troll boy, not me.
<1> Power
<2> Privacy

That answer is so simple that for you to not know it means you know nothing
about UWB. Particularly the huge privacy implications of not being able to
turn it off only on Apple products (everyone else lets you turn it off).

Why do you think only Apple denies users the basic privacy to turn UWB off?

Jolly Roger

2024-04-22 15:44:12 UTC

I asked a question, and you have failed to answer. You must have the
mental and emotional capacity of a child to think that asking a
legitimate question and expecting an honest answer is "arguing".

The answer is obvious

Yet you are unable to articulate it.

Post by Nick Cine
for you to say

I said nothing - I asked a question. And you refuse to answer.

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Nick Cine

2024-04-22 22:42:13 UTC

Post by Nick Cine
The answer is obvious

Yet you are unable to articulate it.

Post by Nick Cine
for you to say

I said nothing - I asked a question. And you refuse to answer.

WTF? I gave you the answer already. Look again. It's in the response you
just read and cut way all but the answer that I gave you.

Open your eyes this time.

Alan

2024-04-22 22:54:13 UTC

Post by Nick Cine
The answer is obvious

Yet you are unable to articulate it.

Post by Nick Cine
for you to say

I said nothing - I asked a question. And you refuse to answer.

WTF? I gave you the answer already. Look again. It's in the response you
just read and cut way all but the answer that I gave you.
Open your eyes this time.

I've rechecked the previous messages.

You never answered his question in any substantive way.

Jolly Roger

2024-04-22 22:54:15 UTC

Post by Nick Cine
The answer is obvious

Yet you are unable to articulate it.

Post by Nick Cine
for you to say

I said nothing - I asked a question. And you refuse to answer.

WTF? I gave you the answer already.i

Nope. "huge privacy implications" isn't an answer, since it doesn't
explain what the actual supposed privacy implication is. I asked a
specific question, and you have been unable to articulate an answer.

Open your eyes this time.

Unlike you, my eyes are wide open. I've even asked for an explanation
hoping to learn more, and you have failed to provide anything of
substance as usual.

You are trolling. And it's a weak troll with nothing apparent to back it
up, just bogus claims without substance as usual.

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Nick Cine

2024-04-23 16:48:04 UTC

Post by Nick Cine
Open your eyes this time.

Unlike you, my eyes are wide open.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/uwb-new-wireless-technology-could-nightmare-privacy-alexander-leschik
"it is important to be aware of the potential privacy implications of UWB"

https://medium.com/@orlandonhoward/the-silent-advent-of-uwb-technology-and-its-implications-for-privacy-6114fb2da0d3
"The proliferation of UWB in cell phones enables scenarios where the
locations and movements of every person with a UWB device can be precisely
tracked with UWB sensors mounted in inconspicuous places."

https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2019/12/21/every-move-you-make-ill-be-watching-you-privacy-implications-of-the-apple-u1-chip-and-ultra-wideband/
"What makes the current generation of UWB chips stand out is that for the
first time they will be deployed in mobile phones, which for a lot of
people is an inseparable part of their daily routine. While it is promoted
by Apple as just another sensor to "Share. Find. Play. More precisely than
ever," this technology has the power to disrupt existing societal norms.
Suddenly businesses will be able to track an individual's location within
their stores down to the centimeter, which gives them the power to track
which products you look at in real-time. Similar to the debated facial
recognition technology, UWB localization offers a new capability to capture
and ultimately profile identities of a user. Essentially, the new chip is a
marketer's dream in a box. Shops already track your purchases, leading to
cases like the infamous 2012 case where Target unintentionally divulged a
teen's pregnancy to her father. When a store has UWB-enabled access points,
it will be easy to monitor a phone's location indoors and track what you
considered purchasing in addition to what you actually purchase."

Jolly Roger

2024-04-24 01:03:31 UTC

Post by Nick Cine
Open your eyes this time.

Unlike you, my eyes are wide open.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/uwb-new-wireless-technology-could-nightmare-privacy-alexander-leschik
"it is important to be aware of the potential privacy implications of UWB"

"Potential". Show the proof that anyone can track all iPhones in their
vicinity through UWB, please.

Post by Nick Cine
"The proliferation of UWB in cell phones enables scenarios where the
locations and movements of every person with a UWB device can be precisely
tracked with UWB sensors mounted in inconspicuous places."

From the same article:

"Apple perceived the privacy threats of its AirTags and implemented
several measures to prevent stalking using the tags. They “have unique
Bluetooth identifiers that frequently rotate to ensure you’re not
tracked from place to place.” Location data and history are also not
stored on the devices. They’re linked to a person’s Apple ID‌ that
no one else can track."

No reason to believe Apple isn't doing the same with all of their
UWB-enabled devices.

Post by Nick Cine
https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2019/12/21/every-move-you-make-ill-be-watching-you-privacy-implications-of-the-apple-u1-chip-and-ultra-wideband/
"What makes the current generation of UWB chips stand out is that for the
first time they will be deployed in mobile phones, which for a lot of
people is an inseparable part of their daily routine. While it is promoted
by Apple as just another sensor to "Share. Find. Play. More precisely than
ever," this technology has the power to disrupt existing societal norms.
Suddenly businesses will be able to track an individual's location within
their stores down to the centimeter, which gives them the power to track
which products you look at in real-time. Similar to the debated facial
recognition technology, UWB localization offers a new capability to capture
and ultimately profile identities of a user. Essentially, the new chip is a
marketer's dream in a box. Shops already track your purchases, leading to
cases like the infamous 2012 case where Target unintentionally divulged a
teen's pregnancy to her father. When a store has UWB-enabled access points,
it will be easy to monitor a phone's location indoors and track what you
considered purchasing in addition to what you actually purchase."

That's a lot of conjecture. Where's the evidence of these claims?

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Jolly Roger

2024-04-25 04:23:00 UTC

Post by Nick Cine
Open your eyes this time.

Unlike you, my eyes are wide open.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/uwb-new-wireless-technology-could-nightmare-privacy-alexander-leschik
"it is important to be aware of the potential privacy implications of UWB"

"Potential". Show the proof that anyone can track all iPhones in their
vicinity through UWB, please.

"Apple perceived the privacy threats of its AirTags and implemented
several measures to prevent stalking using the tags. They “have unique
Bluetooth identifiers that frequently rotate to ensure you’re not
tracked from place to place.” Location data and history are also not
stored on the devices. They’re linked to a person’s Apple ID‌ that
no one else can track."
No reason to believe Apple isn't doing the same with all of their
UWB-enabled devices.

That's a lot of conjecture. Where's the evidence of these claims?

...crickets...

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Alan Browne

2024-04-22 22:30:00 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate transfers
and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office" function that the
user doesn't need to worry about much.
(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data transfer in
Apple devices).

I don't know about Android in this sense but I'd be very surprised.
This is a "back office" function.

If the phone has it (see model no.) and you're not in Airplane Mode,
then it is on.

There are thousands - 10's of thousands of states in an appliance like
an iPhone. Apple don't expose many of them because: no need.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

Bill Powell

2024-04-23 16:20:33 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate transfers
and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office" function that the
user doesn't need to worry about much.
(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data transfer in
Apple devices).

That's it: how do I know UWB is on? I have a feeling Android phones show it
with little icon on the top 5 mm of the screen the way they used to
indicate if 3G or 4G/LTE was being used. Apple likes to keep us in the
dark, sp it seems.

I don't know about Android in this sense but I'd be very surprised.
This is a "back office" function.
If the phone has it (see model no.) and you're not in Airplane Mode,
then it is on.
There are thousands - 10's of thousands of states in an appliance like
an iPhone. Apple don't expose many of them because: no need.

Apple originally supplied a GUI to specifically turn UWB off in the beta.
https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/disable-ultra-wideband-chip-iphone/

How to Disable the Ultra Wideband Chip in Your iPhone 11 Pro
to Prevent Location Data Usage

"A security researcher discovered that Apple's iPhone 11 Pro models
access user location data even when all apps and system services on the
*iPhone* are set to not request the data... Apple responded by explaining
that *these *iPhone** models have a U1 Ultra Wideband chip... With the
release of iOS 13.3.1, Apple is adding an option to its *iPhone* software
that allows users to turn off the UI chip entirely if they so wish.

The new option is hidden away in settings, but you can find it by
following the steps below.

Launch the Settings app on your *iPhone*.
Tap Privacy.
Tap Location Services.
Tap System Services at the bottom of the menu.
Toggle the Networking & Wireless switch to the grey OFF position.
A prompt will appear - tap Turn Off to confirm."

Did that UWB privacy switch never make it into the iOS release stream?

Alan Browne

2024-04-23 17:06:18 UTC

Post by Bill Powell

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate transfers
and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office" function that the
user doesn't need to worry about much.
(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data transfer in
Apple devices).

I don't know about Android in this sense but I'd be very surprised.
This is a "back office" function.
If the phone has it (see model no.) and you're not in Airplane Mode,
then it is on.
There are thousands - 10's of thousands of states in an appliance like
an iPhone. Apple don't expose many of them because: no need.

Not needed.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

Jolly Roger

2024-04-23 17:34:41 UTC

Post by Bill Powell
Apple originally supplied a GUI to specifically turn UWB off in the beta.
https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/disable-ultra-wideband-chip-iphone/
How to Disable the Ultra Wideband Chip in Your iPhone 11 Pro
to Prevent Location Data Usage
"A security researcher discovered that Apple's iPhone 11 Pro models
access user location data even when all apps and system services on the
*iPhone* are set to not request the data... Apple responded by explaining
that *these *iPhone** models have a U1 Ultra Wideband chip... With the
release of iOS 13.3.1, Apple is adding an option to its *iPhone* software
that allows users to turn off the UI chip entirely if they so wish.
The new option is hidden away in settings, but you can find it by
following the steps below.
Launch the Settings app on your *iPhone*.
Tap Privacy.
Tap Location Services.
Tap System Services at the bottom of the menu.
Toggle the Networking & Wireless switch to the grey OFF position.
A prompt will appear - tap Turn Off to confirm."
Did that UWB privacy switch never make it into the iOS release stream?

It's still there in iOS 16.

Of course by disabling it you naturally lose the ability to locate your
stolen or lost device, among other things.

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JR

Cameo

2024-04-23 16:52:55 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate transfers
and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office" function that the
user doesn't need to worry about much.
(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data transfer in
Apple devices).

I don't know about Android in this sense but I'd be very surprised.
This is a "back office" function.
If the phone has it (see model no.) and you're not in Airplane Mode,
then it is on.

Then it’s on … Provided that the network provider has a near antenna to
broadcast UWB. We need to see some indication of that so we can see the
difference in data speed when it exists and when it does not.

Alan Browne

2024-04-23 17:06:46 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate transfers
and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office" function that the
user doesn't need to worry about much.
(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data transfer in
Apple devices).

I don't know about Android in this sense but I'd be very surprised.
This is a "back office" function.
If the phone has it (see model no.) and you're not in Airplane Mode,
then it is on.

Do we?

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

Cameo

2024-04-24 11:43:42 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate transfers
and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office" function that the
user doesn't need to worry about much.
(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data transfer in
Apple devices).

I don't know about Android in this sense but I'd be very surprised.
This is a "back office" function.
If the phone has it (see model no.) and you're not in Airplane Mode,
then it is on.

Do we?

I do. Because inquiring minds want to know.

Alan Browne

2024-04-24 21:17:10 UTC

Post by Cameo
Then it’s on … Provided that the network provider has a near antenna to
broadcast UWB. We need to see some indication of that so we can see the
difference in data speed when it exists and when it does not.

Do we?

I do. Because inquiring minds want to know.

Conditions:
some network provider with broadcast UWB - which is not even a "thing"
as far as I can tell.
some indication that it's "doing something".
some comparative of data speed (you mean rate, but let's not quibble*)
from some non existent state v. a state that is not known to exist.

"Inquiring minds want to know" is the motto of the National Enquirer.

Hmm - not the best reference...

*Yeah, not quibbling on usenet - what's the matter with me?

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

Cameo

2024-04-27 17:01:22 UTC

Do we?

I do. Because inquiring minds want to know.

some network provider with broadcast UWB - which is not even a "thing"
as far as I can tell.
some indication that it's "doing something".
some comparative of data speed (you mean rate, but let's not quibble*)
from some non existent state v. a state that is not known to exist.
"Inquiring minds want to know" is the motto of the National Enquirer.
Hmm - not the best reference...

But it doesn't make itt less true.

Jolly Roger

2024-04-24 01:05:02 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I
haven't found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate
transfers and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office"
function that the user doesn't need to worry about much.
(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data
transfer in Apple devices).

That’s it: how do I know UWB is on? I have a feeling Android phones
show it with little icon on the top 5 mm of the screen the way they
used to indicate if 3G or 4G/LTE was being used. Apple likes to keep
us in the dark, sp it seems.

I don't know about Android in this sense but I'd be very surprised.
This is a "back office" function.
If the phone has it (see model no.) and you're not in Airplane Mode,
then it is on.

Then it’s on … Provided that the network provider has a near antenna
to broadcast UWB. We need to see some indication of that

We need to see evidence that iPhones are actually being tracked through
UWB as well.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Alan Browne

2024-04-24 21:11:22 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I
haven't found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate
transfers and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office"
function that the user doesn't need to worry about much.
(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data
transfer in Apple devices).

That’s it: how do I know UWB is on? I have a feeling Android phones
show it with little icon on the top 5 mm of the screen the way they
used to indicate if 3G or 4G/LTE was being used. Apple likes to keep
us in the dark, sp it seems.

I don't know about Android in this sense but I'd be very surprised.
This is a "back office" function.
If the phone has it (see model no.) and you're not in Airplane Mode,
then it is on.

Then it’s on … Provided that the network provider has a near antenna
to broadcast UWB. We need to see some indication of that

We need to see evidence that iPhones are actually being tracked through
UWB as well.

Yep - the only thing that comes to mind is Apple physical stores might
get all excited if you came by - but being Apple the experience would be
integrated with the visit and sale experience in some seamless manner -
an evolution of the existing Apple Store App where you scan you own
purchases with your own phone and then walk out.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

Oliver

2024-04-20 14:02:38 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

"Because UWB's locating abilities are so precise, beacons provide an
easy way to track and stalk people."

Why do you think it's only Apple devices that can't turn their UWB off?

Apple has a vested interest in making profits off of consumers who
unknowingly transmit their location to every beacon in the store.

Therefore, Apple made it impossible to use the iPhone without USB.

Airplane mode is NOT a specific toggle for UWB - it's a general toggle for
all radios, and when in Airplane mode, the iPhone ceases to be a phone.

Yet Android provides a specific toggle for UWB (on or off) at will.
https://www.androidpolice.com/enable-ultra-wideband-android/

This on/off control of UWB is mainly for power & privacy reasons.
https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise

"Ultra-Wideband ("UWB") is a short-range wireless technology somewhat
like Bluetooth or Wi-Fi, but with superior locating abilities, enabling the
highly accurate identification of an object's position in three-dimensional
space.

UWB capabilities are now standard on many newer-model smartphones,
allowing users to track UWB-enabled beacons from their smartphones and
allowing vendors to leverage inbuilt UWB capabilities to create massive
sensor networks using unwitting users' mobile devices.

This report focuses on privacy and anti-trust concerns surrounding UWB
beacons, the tip of the iceberg of planned UWB applications.

Because UWB's locating abilities are so precise, beacons provide an easy
way to track and stalk people.

Beacons pass detailed device location data through neighboring devices'
networks, introducing the twin risks of malicious hacking and commercial
exploitation by vendors.

Apple and Amazon have acted to shut competitors out of the UWB beacon
space, demonstrating a clear linkage between the story of these beacons and
the larger story of Big Tech anti-trust concerns."

Apple does not want you to be able to have the privacy that Android has
because Apple is making profits off of you by selling your location.

Alan Browne

2024-04-20 14:46:04 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

"Because UWB's

Arlen is like rust. Never sleeps. No added value.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

Quincy the fifth

2024-04-20 15:40:24 UTC

Post by Alan Browne
No added value.

And yet, there is added value in the link provided which Apple will never
give you because the link shows Apple is profiting by selling your tracking
location data. <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

Don't you ever think WHY only Apple refuses to allow you to turn UWB off?

Remember, Apple leads you iSheep to slaughter, which is why you can't use
an iPhone without logging into Apple's 24/7/356 tracking account, and if
it's an iPhone 11 or newer, every location movement is now tracked by UWB.

Apple sells your private location tracking information - tied to your ID!

You can deny that added information is of any value to you, but for those
who care about their privacy - it's extremely useful information to know.

Alan

2024-04-20 16:11:26 UTC

Post by Alan Browne
No added value.

And yet, there is added value in the link provided which Apple will never
give you because the link shows Apple is profiting by selling your tracking
location data. <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>
Don't you ever think WHY only Apple refuses to allow you to turn UWB off?
Remember, Apple leads you iSheep to slaughter, which is why you can't use
an iPhone without logging into Apple's 24/7/356 tracking account, and if
it's an iPhone 11 or newer, every location movement is now tracked by UWB.
Apple sells your private location tracking information - tied to your ID!
You can deny that added information is of any value to you, but for those
who care about their privacy - it's extremely useful information to know.

1. You provide no evidence for your assertion.

2. You're Arlen.

Jörg Lorenz

2024-04-20 16:19:57 UTC

Post by Alan

Post by Alan Browne
No added value.

And yet, there is added value in the link provided which Apple will never
give you because the link shows Apple is profiting by selling your tracking
location data. <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>
Don't you ever think WHY only Apple refuses to allow you to turn UWB off?
Remember, Apple leads you iSheep to slaughter, which is why you can't use
an iPhone without logging into Apple's 24/7/356 tracking account, and if
it's an iPhone 11 or newer, every location movement is now tracked by UWB.
Apple sells your private location tracking information - tied to your ID!
You can deny that added information is of any value to you, but for those
who care about their privacy - it's extremely useful information to know.

1. You provide no evidence for your assertion.
2. You're Arlen.

Sure:

Path:
eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!newsfeed.bofh.team!paganini.bofh.team!not-for-mail
From: Quincy the fifth <***@telekom.net>
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.privacy,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: Ultra Wide Band?
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 17:40:24 +0200
Organization: To protect and to server
Message-ID: <v00nl9$30tdm$***@paganini.bofh.team>
References: <uvukg7$36flq$***@dont-email.me>
<v00htu$3mtfd$***@dont-email.me> <MyQUN.1416$***@fx36.iad>
Injection-Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 15:40:25 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: paganini.bofh.team; logging-data="3175862";
posting-host="MLR8YE4/vKN1nKYAmZBNrw.user.paganini.bofh.team";
mail-complaints-to="***@bofh.team";
posting-account="9dIQLXBM7WM9KzA+yjdR4A";
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)

X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.3

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Quincy the fifth

2024-04-20 16:38:19 UTC

Post by Alan
You provide no evidence for your assertion.

You denied the evidence without even clicking on the link provided.
<https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

Only Apple prevents you from turning off UWB.
Every other platform but iOS with UWB allows users basic privacy.

But not Apple.

Worse, you're logged into Apple servers 24/7/365 for your location tracking
to be tied to your unique AppleID (which you can't remove from iOS).

Android allows you to remove the tracking account. iOS doesn't.
Android allows you to turn off UWB & still use the phone; iOS doesn't.

The reason Android allows it is that it's important for privacy.
The reason Apple doesn't is explained in the article you didn't read.

Apple profits greatly from denying its users this basic UWB privacy.
Says so in the link already provided (that you didn't click on).

Do not respond until/unless you show you've clicked on the link.
Here it is again for you to again & again claim it doesn't exist.
<https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

Frankie

2024-04-20 16:47:22 UTC

Post by Alan
You provide no evidence for your assertion.

You denied the evidence without even clicking on the link provided.
<https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>
Only Apple prevents you from turning off UWB.
Every other platform but iOS with UWB allows users basic privacy.
But not Apple.
Worse, you're logged into Apple servers 24/7/365 for your location tracking
to be tied to your unique AppleID (which you can't remove from iOS).
Android allows you to remove the tracking account. iOS doesn't.
Android allows you to turn off UWB & still use the phone; iOS doesn't.
The reason Android allows it is that it's important for privacy.
The reason Apple doesn't is explained in the article you didn't read.
Apple profits greatly from denying its users this basic UWB privacy.
Says so in the link already provided (that you didn't click on).
Do not respond until/unless you show you've clicked on the link.
Here it is again for you to again & again claim it doesn't exist.
<https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

Apple only advertises privacy but Apple never provides any privacy.
https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2019/12/21/every-move-you-make-ill-be-watching-you-privacy-implications-of-the-apple-u1-chip-and-ultra-wideband/

"In a recent empirical study Martin, Kirsten E., and Helen Nissenbaum show
that "that [UWB] tracking an individual's place - home, work, shopping - is
seen to violate privacy expectations, even without directly collecting GPS
data, that is, standard markers representing location in technical
systems."" https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3360409

If Apple actually cared about privacy, Apple would allow you to turn off
UWB and still use the phone but Apple won't give you that basic privacy.

Because Apple is profiting from selling your location information.

"One recent incident report by Brian Kreb, details how Apple continues to
collect location information, despite location-based system services being
disabled. According to Brian, Apple's response stated, "this behavior is
tied to the inclusion of a new short-range technology that lets iPhone 11
users share files locally with other nearby phones that support this
feature, and that a future version of its mobile operating system will
allow users to disable it"."
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/12/the-iphone-11-pros-location-data-puzzler/

Alan

2024-04-20 16:49:07 UTC

Post by Alan
You provide no evidence for your assertion.

You denied the evidence without even clicking on the link provided.
<https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

Nope. I clicked on it.

There is literally not a single word about:

'Apple sells your private location tracking information - tied to your ID!'

Interesting you snipped that, hmmm?

Post by Quincy the fifth
Only Apple prevents you from turning off UWB.
Every other platform but iOS with UWB allows users basic privacy.
But not Apple.
Worse, you're logged into Apple servers 24/7/365 for your location tracking
to be tied to your unique AppleID (which you can't remove from iOS).
Android allows you to remove the tracking account. iOS doesn't.
Android allows you to turn off UWB & still use the phone; iOS doesn't.
The reason Android allows it is that it's important for privacy.
The reason Apple doesn't is explained in the article you didn't read.
Apple profits greatly from denying its users this basic UWB privacy.
Says so in the link already provided (that you didn't click on).
Do not respond until/unless you show you've clicked on the link.
Here it is again for you to again & again claim it doesn't exist.
<https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

You've still not provided any evidence at all that Apple "sells" any
tracking information.

Alan

2024-04-20 19:28:27 UTC

Post by Alan
You provide no evidence for your assertion.

You denied the evidence without even clicking on the link provided.
<https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>
Only Apple prevents you from turning off UWB.
Every other platform but iOS with UWB allows users basic privacy.
But not Apple.
Worse, you're logged into Apple servers 24/7/365 for your location tracking
to be tied to your unique AppleID (which you can't remove from iOS).
Android allows you to remove the tracking account. iOS doesn't.
Android allows you to turn off UWB & still use the phone; iOS doesn't.
The reason Android allows it is that it's important for privacy.
The reason Apple doesn't is explained in the article you didn't read.
Apple profits greatly from denying its users this basic UWB privacy.
Says so in the link already provided (that you didn't click on).
Do not respond until/unless you show you've clicked on the link.
Here it is again for you to again & again claim it doesn't exist.
<https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

'Apple also stressed it doesn’t use the UWB feature to collect user
location data, and that this location checking resided “entirely on the
device.” Still, it’s nice that iPhone 11 users will now have a setting
to disable the feature if they want.'

<https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/01/apple-addresses-iphone-11-location-privacy-concern/>

Alan Browne

2024-04-20 16:42:08 UTC

Post by Alan Browne
No added value.

A fear mongering article that is full of errors doesn't impress much.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

Quincy the fifth

2024-04-20 17:00:35 UTC

Post by Quincy the fifth
And yet, there is added value in the link provided which Apple will never
give you because the link shows Apple is profiting by selling your tracking
location data. <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

A fear mongering article that is full of errors doesn't impress much.

It's quite clear you've never read anything other than Apple slick white
papers and ads, as Google was forced to belatedly include a switch to turn
UWB off - which was widely reported - and yet Apple refused you that basic
privacy (because Apple profits greatly from selling your location data).

You're completely clueless about Apple, but even Apple was forced to
address some of the U1 UWB privacy issues - which is news you missed.
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/01/apple-addresses-iphone-11-location-privacy-concern/

Yet even today, only Apple doesn't allow users the basic privacy right to
turn UWB off, which means anyone can easily track iPhone users everywhere
they go. Apple even sells that private location data to advertisers.

https://medium.com/@orlandonhoward/the-silent-advent-of-uwb-technology-and-its-implications-for-privacy-6114fb2da0d3
"The proliferation of UWB in cell phones enables scenarios where the
locations and movements of every person with a UWB device can be precisely
tracked with UWB sensors mounted in inconspicuous places."

Before you respond, you have to address why only Apple doesn't allow anyone
with an iPhone 11 or higher to have the basic privacy of turning UWB off.
https://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/google-and-apple-are-interested-in-profits-not-privacy/

Alan

2024-04-20 19:25:50 UTC

A fear mongering article that is full of errors doesn't impress much.

You keep saying that...

...but you've presented no evidence to support it.

Post by Quincy the fifth
"The proliferation of UWB in cell phones enables scenarios where the
locations and movements of every person with a UWB device can be precisely
tracked with UWB sensors mounted in inconspicuous places."
Before you respond, you have to address why only Apple doesn't allow anyone
with an iPhone 11 or higher to have the basic privacy of turning UWB off.
https://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/google-and-apple-are-interested-in-profits-not-privacy/

That last URL doesn't even mention location privacy, Arlen.

Jolly Roger

2024-04-20 21:24:24 UTC

Post by Alan Browne
No added value.

And yet, there is added value

Nope. You're just nym switcing and trolling, as usual.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger

2024-04-20 21:23:42 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

"Because UWB's

Arlen is like rust. Never sleeps. No added value.

Yup. Just lame.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

TChan

2024-05-06 16:34:25 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

"Because UWB's

Arlen is like rust. Never sleeps. No added value.

Yup. Just lame.

Y N

Jolly Roger

2024-05-06 23:54:14 UTC

Post by Cameo
Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

"Because UWB's

Arlen is like rust. Never sleeps. No added value.

Yup. Just lame.

Y N

Triggered much? 🤣

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Enrico Papaloma

2024-04-20 16:58:20 UTC