EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force

[Andrew]

Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.

*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-universal-chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>

This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

[Alan]

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-universal-
chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

How does a universal charger change "interoperating" at all?

[Scott]

Post by Alan

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-universal-
chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

How does a universal charger change "interoperating" at all?

I wondered that too. For a train, for example, 'interoperating'
suggests more than shared infrastructure. It means the couplings, the
software etc have to be compatible.

[David Wade]

Post by Scott

Post by Alan

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-universal-
chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

How does a universal charger change "interoperating" at all?

I wondered that too. For a train, for example, 'interoperating'
suggests more than shared infrastructure. It means the couplings, the
software etc have to be compatible.

For an iPad there is interaction. USB-C has voltage negotiation, but my
wife's iPad charges correctly from my Lenovo laptop charger.

On an iPhone the "Lightening" adaptor also functions as a device port
allowing Apple to control which devices can be connected....

Dave

[Harry S Robins]

Post by David Wade

Post by Scott

Post by Alan

Post by Andrew
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-universal-
chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

How does a universal charger change "interoperating" at all?

I wondered that too. For a train, for example, 'interoperating'
suggests more than shared infrastructure. It means the couplings, the
software etc have to be compatible.

For an iPad there is interaction. USB-C has voltage negotiation, but my
wife's iPad charges correctly from my Lenovo laptop charger.
On an iPhone the "Lightening" adaptor also functions as a device port
allowing Apple to control which devices can be connected....

The connector matters not only for the compatibility of the cabling, but
also the protocols (currently most often PD and QC), and even more so, for
inter operability with accessories such as with universal wired headphones.

Apple purposefully destroys inter operability (for their profit & avarice).

[Alan]

Post by Harry S Robins

Post by David Wade

Post by Scott

Post by Alan

Post by Andrew
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-
universal-
chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

How does a universal charger change "interoperating" at all?

I wondered that too. For a train, for example, 'interoperating'
suggests more than shared infrastructure. It means the couplings, the
software etc have to be compatible.

For an iPad there is interaction. USB-C has voltage negotiation, but
my wife's iPad charges correctly from my Lenovo laptop charger.
On an iPhone the "Lightening" adaptor also functions as a device port
allowing Apple to control which devices can be connected....

The connector matters not only for the compatibility of the cabling, but
also the protocols (currently most often PD and QC), and even more so, for
inter operability with accessories such as with universal wired headphones.
Apple purposefully destroys inter operability (for their profit & avarice).

LOL!

Another Arlen sock puppet!

[Alan]

Post by David Wade

Post by Scott

Post by Alan

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-
universal-
chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

How does a universal charger change "interoperating" at all?

I wondered that too. For a train, for example, 'interoperating'
suggests more than shared infrastructure. It means the couplings, the
software etc have to be compatible.

For an iPad there is interaction. USB-C has voltage negotiation, but my
wife's iPad charges correctly from my Lenovo laptop charger.
On an iPhone the "Lightening" adaptor also functions as a device port
allowing Apple to control which devices can be connected....

When Apple introduced the Lightning (not "LightEning") port in 2012,
they did so because it was a better option than the USB connectors
available at the time; both reversible for ease of use and stronger than
the available mini/micro USB connectors available (and also design so
that if too much force was put on it, the plug would break and not the
port in the device).

This means that for more than a decade people have been purchasing
Lightning accessories to use with their phones. For Apple to have too
quickly changed from Lightning to USB would have been a huge disservice
to its customers.

And "interaction" is not the same thing as "interoperation".

Changing the charging port doesn't make a device running iOS any more
"interOPERABLE" with an Android device (or any other non-iOS device).

[Spike]

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-universal-chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

“By allowing consumers to purchase a new device without a new charger, it
will also reduce the mountain of obsolete chargers, the bloc has argued.”

The EU is terrified of mountains. It still remembers the billions thrown at
inefficient French farmers, who among others produced a butter mountain
(and its liquid equivalent, the wine lake), all sold off cheaply to
third-world countries. Except the wine lake, which was turned into
industrial alcohol.

[Abandoned Trolley]

Post by Spike
“By allowing consumers to purchase a new device without a new charger, it
will also reduce the mountain of obsolete chargers, the bloc has argued.”

I have just bought a Samsung phone, which came in a slim box - because
no charger was included

[Peter Johnson]

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 11:24:25 +0000, Abandoned Trolley

Post by Abandoned Trolley

“By allowing consumers to purchase a new device without a new charger, it
will also reduce the mountain of obsolete chargers, the bloc has argued.”

I have just bought a Samsung phone, which came in a slim box - because
no charger was included

I recently bought an LED work light that was supplied without a
charger but with a short USB A - USB C lead, and which was equipped
with ports for both, giving maximum flexibility. It also claims to be
capable of charging connected devices but I haven't tried that.
I also have installed several 13a sockets with built-in USB A charging
sockets.

[Nick Cine]

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Abandoned Trolley

�By allowing consumers to purchase a new device without a new charger, it
will also reduce the mountain of obsolete chargers, the bloc has argued.�

I have just bought a Samsung phone, which came in a slim box - because
no charger was included

I recently bought an LED work light that was supplied without a
charger but with a short USB A - USB C lead, and which was equipped
with ports for both, giving maximum flexibility. It also claims to be
capable of charging connected devices but I haven't tried that.
I also have installed several 13a sockets with built-in USB A charging
sockets.

After 11 years of imprisonment inside the walled garden, Apple was finally
forced to bow to human decency by releasing its slaves from their bondage.

https://www.wired.com/story/apple-iphone-15-usb-c/

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Nick Cine

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Abandoned Trolley

�By allowing consumers to purchase a new device without a new charger, it
will also reduce the mountain of obsolete chargers, the bloc has argued.�

I have just bought a Samsung phone, which came in a slim box - because
no charger was included

I recently bought an LED work light that was supplied without a
charger but with a short USB A - USB C lead, and which was equipped
with ports for both, giving maximum flexibility. It also claims to be
capable of charging connected devices but I haven't tried that.
I also have installed several 13a sockets with built-in USB A charging
sockets.

After 11 years of imprisonment inside the walled garden, Apple was finally
forced to bow to human decency by releasing its slaves from their bondage.
https://www.wired.com/story/apple-iphone-15-usb-c/

«Apple has gradually added USB-C ports to its other hardware over the
past few years. It was the first to put USB-C on a laptop in 2015. Then
iPads started the transition from Lightning to USB-C. You can say the
iPhone was inevitably going to be next in line, but Apple has been
collecting licensing fees from third parties that make accessories
utilizing the Lightning port through the company's Made for iPhone (MFi)
program. Why lose out on all that cash? Apple's hand was forced by the
European Union, which passed a law in 2022 requiring phones, tablets,
and cameras sold in the region to come equipped with a USB-C port by the
end of 2024.»

Interoperability :-)

[Andrew]

Post by Carlos E.R.
Apple's hand was forced by the
European Union, which passed a law in 2022 requiring phones, tablets,
and cameras sold in the region to come equipped with a USB-C port by the
end of 2024.

Apple called USB-C "terrifying" because Apple has never had any intention
of any device in the walled garden interoperating with anything else.

[Alan]

Post by Andrew

Apple's hand was forced by the European Union, which passed a law in
2022 requiring phones, tablets, and cameras sold in the region to come
equipped with a USB-C port by the end of 2024.

Apple called USB-C "terrifying" because Apple has never had any intention
of any device in the walled garden interoperating with anything else.

Cite, please!

And Apple was the first to add USB-C to its laptops and started using it
on iPads in 2018. (And yes, if anyone thinks I'm making that up, I will
provide the citations).

[Chris]

Post by Andrew

Post by Carlos E.R.
Apple's hand was forced by the
European Union, which passed a law in 2022 requiring phones, tablets,
and cameras sold in the region to come equipped with a USB-C port by the
end of 2024.

Apple called USB-C "terrifying" because Apple has never had any intention
of any device in the walled garden interoperating with anything else.

And yet they interoperate with all other computers just fine. They'd be
pretty useless if they didn't.

[Alan]

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew

Post by Carlos E.R.
Apple's hand was forced by the
European Union, which passed a law in 2022 requiring phones, tablets,
and cameras sold in the region to come equipped with a USB-C port by the
end of 2024.

Apple called USB-C "terrifying" because Apple has never had any intention
of any device in the walled garden interoperating with anything else.

And yet they interoperate with all other computers just fine. They'd be
pretty useless if they didn't.

When has Arlen ever been honest about this fact?

:-)

[Andrew]

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Apple called USB-C "terrifying" because Apple has never had any intention
of any device in the walled garden interoperating with anything else.

And yet they interoperate with all other computers just fine. They'd be
pretty useless if they didn't.

Anyone who claims iOS interoperates with Windows knows nothing about iOS.

1. Plug an Android & iOS device into two USB ports on any Windows PC;
(In fact, plug any number of them into any number of Windows PCs!)
2. Copy a few movies from each Windows PC to each of those devices;
3. Oh wait. You can't. Not with the Apple devices you can't.

Apple murdered interoperability.


FACT: The iOS device does NOT interoperate with Windows.

Not only is that task impossible to do on Windows without adding additional
bloatware (e.g., the iTunes abomination which Apple clearly has never
tested for bugs - which is why iTunes is always full of zero-day holes!)...

But...

You have to create an Apple ID on every single Windows PC in order to do it
(even with the iTunes bloatware abomination).

But wait... there's more...

That Apple ID has to *match* that of each iOS device.

Fancy that.
A. You take five Android devices - they all interoperate with Windows.
B. You take five iOS devices - you need to create FIVE DIFFERENT APPLE IDs!

The fact is clear that Apple devices do not interoperate with Windows.

FACT:
a. Android devices easily copy movies to any Windows device, while
b. Apple devices can't copy anything to any Windows device
(without adding matching Apple Id's & without adding bloatware)

Apple murdered interoperability.

Anyone who claims otherwise knows absolutely nothing about iOS.

[Alan]

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Apple called USB-C "terrifying" because Apple has never had any intention
of any device in the walled garden interoperating with anything else.

And yet they interoperate with all other computers just fine. They'd be
pretty useless if they didn't.

Anyone who claims iOS interoperates with Windows knows nothing about iOS.
1. Plug an Android & iOS device into two USB ports on any Windows PC;
  (In fact, plug any number of them into any number of Windows PCs!)
2. Copy a few movies from each Windows PC to each of those devices;
3. Oh wait. You can't. Not with the Apple devices you can't.

False.

Post by Andrew
Apple murdered interoperability.
FACT: The iOS device does NOT interoperate with Windows.

False.

Not interoperating the way YOU want them to is not the same thing.

Post by Andrew
Not only is that task impossible to do on Windows without adding additional
bloatware (e.g., the iTunes abomination which Apple clearly has never
tested for bugs - which is why iTunes is always full of zero-day holes!)...

False.

Post by Andrew
But...
You have to create an Apple ID on every single Windows PC in order to do it
(even with the iTunes bloatware abomination).
But wait... there's more...
That Apple ID has to *match* that of each iOS device.

Nope. False.

Post by Andrew
Fancy that.
A. You take five Android devices - they all interoperate with Windows.
B. You take five iOS devices - you need to create FIVE DIFFERENT APPLE IDs!

Completely false.

Post by Andrew
The fact is clear that Apple devices do not interoperate with Windows.
a. Android devices easily copy movies to any Windows device, while
b. Apple devices can't copy anything to any Windows device
  (without adding matching Apple Id's & without adding bloatware)
Apple murdered interoperability.
Anyone who claims otherwise knows absolutely nothing about iOS.

[knuttle]

Post by Alan

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Apple called USB-C "terrifying" because Apple has never had any intention
of any device in the walled garden interoperating with anything else.

And yet they interoperate with all other computers just fine. They'd be
pretty useless if they didn't.

Anyone who claims iOS interoperates with Windows knows nothing about iOS.
1. Plug an Android & iOS device into two USB ports on any Windows PC;
   (In fact, plug any number of them into any number of Windows PCs!)
2. Copy a few movies from each Windows PC to each of those devices;
3. Oh wait. You can't. Not with the Apple devices you can't.

False.

Post by Andrew
Apple murdered interoperability.
FACT: The iOS device does NOT interoperate with Windows.

False.
Not interoperating the way YOU want them to is not the same thing.

Post by Andrew
Not only is that task impossible to do on Windows without adding additional
bloatware (e.g., the iTunes abomination which Apple clearly has never
tested for bugs - which is why iTunes is always full of zero-day holes!)...

False.

Post by Andrew
But...
You have to create an Apple ID on every single Windows PC in order to do it
(even with the iTunes bloatware abomination).
But wait... there's more...
That Apple ID has to *match* that of each iOS device.

Nope. False.

Post by Andrew
Fancy that.
A. You take five Android devices - they all interoperate with Windows.
B. You take five iOS devices - you need to create FIVE DIFFERENT APPLE IDs!

Completely false.

Post by Andrew
The fact is clear that Apple devices do not interoperate with Windows.
a. Android devices easily copy movies to any Windows device, while
b. Apple devices can't copy anything to any Windows device
   (without adding matching Apple Id's & without adding bloatware)
Apple murdered interoperability.
Anyone who claims otherwise knows absolutely nothing about iOS.

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC. Especially how do
you get pictures from

[Alan]

Post by Alan

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Apple called USB-C "terrifying" because Apple has never had any intention
of any device in the walled garden interoperating with anything else.

And yet they interoperate with all other computers just fine. They'd be
pretty useless if they didn't.

Anyone who claims iOS interoperates with Windows knows nothing about iOS.
1. Plug an Android & iOS device into two USB ports on any Windows PC;
   (In fact, plug any number of them into any number of Windows PCs!)
2. Copy a few movies from each Windows PC to each of those devices;
3. Oh wait. You can't. Not with the Apple devices you can't.

False.

Post by Andrew
Apple murdered interoperability.
FACT: The iOS device does NOT interoperate with Windows.

False.
Not interoperating the way YOU want them to is not the same thing.

Post by Andrew
Not only is that task impossible to do on Windows without adding additional
bloatware (e.g., the iTunes abomination which Apple clearly has never
tested for bugs - which is why iTunes is always full of zero-day holes!)...

False.

Post by Andrew
But...
You have to create an Apple ID on every single Windows PC in order to do it
(even with the iTunes bloatware abomination).
But wait... there's more...
That Apple ID has to *match* that of each iOS device.

Nope. False.

Post by Andrew
Fancy that.
A. You take five Android devices - they all interoperate with Windows.
B. You take five iOS devices - you need to create FIVE DIFFERENT APPLE IDs!

Completely false.

Post by Andrew
The fact is clear that Apple devices do not interoperate with Windows.
a. Android devices easily copy movies to any Windows device, while
b. Apple devices can't copy anything to any Windows device
   (without adding matching Apple Id's & without adding bloatware)
Apple murdered interoperability.
Anyone who claims otherwise knows absolutely nothing about iOS.

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.  Especially how do
you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC

You can import photos to your PC by connecting your device to your
computer and using the Apple Devices app:

Install the Apple Devices app from the Microsoft Store.
Connect your iPhone or iPad to your PC with a USB cable.
If asked, unlock your iOS or iPadOS device using your passcode.
If you see a prompt on your iOS or iPadOS device asking you to Trust
This Computer, tap Trust or Allow to continue.'

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/120267>

Done!

[Carlos E.R.]

...

Post by Alan

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.  Especially how
do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC
You can import photos to your PC by connecting your device to your
Install the Apple Devices app from the Microsoft Store.
Connect your iPhone or iPad to your PC with a USB cable.
If asked, unlock your iOS or iPadOS device using your passcode.
If you see a prompt on your iOS or iPadOS device asking you to Trust
This Computer, tap Trust or Allow to continue.'
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/120267>
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

[Theo]

Post by Carlos E.R.
...

Post by Alan

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.  Especially how
do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC

[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Alan
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc), or ifuse
makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be accessed from anywhere.

(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver - I've not
tried that)

Theo

[Andrew]

Post by Theo

Post by Carlos E.R.
How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc), or ifuse
makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be accessed from anywhere.

1. Copying photos from iOS to Windows is easy
2. Going the other way is not

Apple murdered interoperability.

While it's trivial to copy an iOS DCIM image or video from the iOS device,
one way only, to the Windows device, where Linux excels is two way file
transfer of not only photos, but almost anything on the iOS device.

You have to know a few tricks though - but once you know them - it works.
<https://i.postimg.cc/s2x0f9Js/files14.jpg> Simultaneous Linux, win & iOS
<https://i.postimg.cc/g269S8rT/files13.jpg> It's easy if you know how
<https://i.postimg.cc/pVJf72fN/files12.jpg> iOS hacks very often will fail
<https://i.postimg.cc/cChf8mx1/files11.jpg> idiot iOS hacks just to copy
<https://i.postimg.cc/9MGdc2s7/files10.jpg> Android is 2-way fast over USB
<https://i.postimg.cc/mDx3xkp4/files09.jpg> iOS only DCIM & only 1-way
<https://i.postimg.cc/3xcCBngd/files08.jpg> iOS is just a dumb brick
<https://i.postimg.cc/KjK4nHwf/files07.jpg> Ubuntu is two-way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/Jhmy9KH7/files06.jpg> Ubuntu uses iFuse for magic
<https://i.postimg.cc/qqg61Rh8/files05.jpg> Ubuntu, movies _to_ iOS on USB
<https://i.postimg.cc/QMk7tvZW/files04.jpg> Ubuntu is two way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/d3SGkdgr/files03.jpg> Android is two way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/L8b18Zmx/files02.jpg> iOS "Files" is not useful
<https://i.postimg.cc/NFkXsJ0X/files01.jpg> iOS/Win is 1-way & DCIM only

Post by Theo
(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver - I've not
tried that)

A driver is automatically installed on Windows when you plug in an iOS
device over USB - but without adding bloatware, you can't copy TO the iOS
device.

Worse, the bloatware requires the Apple ID of every device you wish to
connect to - and each and ever iOS users' password too.

Fancy that.
Nothing works in the walled garden when it comes to the real world.

By way of contrast, you can connect any Android device to any Windows PC to
then copy bidirectionally to almost anywhere on that Android device.

[Alan]

Post by Andrew

Post by Theo

Post by Carlos E.R.
How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc), or ifuse
makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be accessed from anywhere.

1. Copying photos from iOS to Windows is easy
2. Going the other way is not

False.

You not knowing how to do something doesn't make it difficult.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Theo

Post by Carlos E.R.
...

Post by Alan

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.  Especially how
do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC

[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Alan
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc), or ifuse
makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be accessed from anywhere.
(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver - I've not
tried that)

MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) as present in Android, works perfectly in
Linux, on several file browsers. I don't have an iPhone nor my friends,
so I haven't tried there.

[Andrew]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Theo
(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver - I've not
tried that)

MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) as present in Android, works perfectly in
Linux, on several file browsers. I don't have an iPhone nor my friends,
so I haven't tried there.

iFuse on Linux is what does all the read/write magic of turning the entire
iOS device into, essentially, a dumb USB stick.

I wish iFuse were ported to Windows; but it's not.

Dunno why though. Would love to know why if someone here knows more than I.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Theo

Post by Carlos E.R.
...

Post by Alan

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.  Especially how
do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC

[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Alan
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc), or ifuse
makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be accessed from anywhere.
(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver - I've not
tried that)

MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) as present in Android, works perfectly in
Linux, on several file browsers. I don't have an iPhone nor my friends,
so I haven't tried there.

AFAIK, the easiest method with iPhone/iPad devices is to use PTP
(Picture Transfer Protocol), not MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) to access
the photo storage of the device, i.e. what is DCIM\Camera on Android. On
Windows, that will show the device as a camera, not a phone. If Linux
can - automatically - use PTP, then that should also work on Linux.

Note however that the PTP protocol is only for pictures ('photos'), so
videos are probably not accessible.

BTW, AFAIK, iOS does not support/offer MTP. If it did, there would be
no problem to connect an iPhone/iPad to Windows and all this iTunes c.q.
Apple Devices app hoopla would be unneeded for a simple USB connection.
would be unneeded.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Theo

Post by Carlos E.R.
...

Post by Alan

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.  Especially how
do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC

[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Alan
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc), or ifuse
makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be accessed from anywhere.
(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver - I've not
tried that)

MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) as present in Android, works perfectly in
Linux, on several file browsers. I don't have an iPhone nor my friends,
so I haven't tried there.

AFAIK, the easiest method with iPhone/iPad devices is to use PTP
(Picture Transfer Protocol), not MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) to access
the photo storage of the device, i.e. what is DCIM\Camera on Android. On
Windows, that will show the device as a camera, not a phone. If Linux
can - automatically - use PTP, then that should also work on Linux.

AFAIK, Linux uses PTP if the phone (Android) decides to activate only PTP.

Post by Frank Slootweg
Note however that the PTP protocol is only for pictures ('photos'), so
videos are probably not accessible.
BTW, AFAIK, iOS does not support/offer MTP. If it did, there would be
no problem to connect an iPhone/iPad to Windows and all this iTunes c.q.
Apple Devices app hoopla would be unneeded for a simple USB connection.
would be unneeded.

Ah.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Theo

Post by Carlos E.R.
...

Post by Alan

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC. 
Especially how do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your
Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC

[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Alan
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc),
or ifuse makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be
accessed from anywhere.
(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver
- I've not tried that)

MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) as present in Android, works
perfectly in Linux, on several file browsers. I don't have an
iPhone nor my friends, so I haven't tried there.

AFAIK, the easiest method with iPhone/iPad devices is to use PTP
(Picture Transfer Protocol), not MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) to
access the photo storage of the device, i.e. what is DCIM\Camera on
Android. On Windows, that will show the device as a camera, not a
phone. If Linux can - automatically - use PTP, then that should also
work on Linux.

AFAIK, Linux uses PTP if the phone (Android) decides to activate only PTP.

That means that you *could* test if an iPhone is likely to work in
PTP mode: Just connect your Android phone to your Linux system and in
the 'USB settings' of the phone select 'Transferring images' (is PTP
mode) instead of 'Transferring files / Auto Auto' (is MTP mode).

If your Linux system can then access the photos in DCIM\Camera of the
phone, it's likely that it can also can access an iPhone as a camera.

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg
Note however that the PTP protocol is only for pictures
('photos'), so videos are probably not accessible.
BTW, AFAIK, iOS does not support/offer MTP. If it did, there
would be no problem to connect an iPhone/iPad to Windows and all
this iTunes c.q. Apple Devices app hoopla would be unneeded for a
simple USB connection. would be unneeded.

Ah.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Theo

Post by Carlos E.R.
...

Post by Alan

Post by knuttle
Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.
Especially how do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your
Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC

[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Alan
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc),
or ifuse makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be
accessed from anywhere.
(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver
- I've not tried that)

MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) as present in Android, works
perfectly in Linux, on several file browsers. I don't have an
iPhone nor my friends, so I haven't tried there.

AFAIK, the easiest method with iPhone/iPad devices is to use PTP
(Picture Transfer Protocol), not MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) to
access the photo storage of the device, i.e. what is DCIM\Camera on
Android. On Windows, that will show the device as a camera, not a
phone. If Linux can - automatically - use PTP, then that should also
work on Linux.

AFAIK, Linux uses PTP if the phone (Android) decides to activate only PTP.

That means that you *could* test if an iPhone is likely to work in
PTP mode: Just connect your Android phone to your Linux system and in
the 'USB settings' of the phone select 'Transferring images' (is PTP
mode) instead of 'Transferring files / Auto Auto' (is MTP mode).

Oh, yes, my Android phone certainly works in this mode, but I almost
never do.

...

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Theo

Post by Carlos E.R.
...

Post by Alan

Post by knuttle
Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.
Especially how do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your
Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC

[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Alan
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc),
or ifuse makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be
accessed from anywhere.
(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver
- I've not tried that)

MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) as present in Android, works
perfectly in Linux, on several file browsers. I don't have an
iPhone nor my friends, so I haven't tried there.

AFAIK, the easiest method with iPhone/iPad devices is to use PTP
(Picture Transfer Protocol), not MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) to
access the photo storage of the device, i.e. what is DCIM\Camera on
Android. On Windows, that will show the device as a camera, not a
phone. If Linux can - automatically - use PTP, then that should also
work on Linux.

AFAIK, Linux uses PTP if the phone (Android) decides to activate only PTP.

That means that you *could* test if an iPhone is likely to work in
PTP mode: Just connect your Android phone to your Linux system and in
the 'USB settings' of the phone select 'Transferring images' (is PTP
mode) instead of 'Transferring files / Auto Auto' (is MTP mode).

Oh, yes, my Android phone certainly works in this mode, but I almost
never do.

Of course you don't use it in that mode, I don't either. It's just a
*test* to determine if an *iPhone* is likely to work in the same way.
From your positive test result, it's likely that an iPhone will work as
well.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Theo

Post by Carlos E.R.
...

Post by Alan

Post by knuttle
Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.
Especially how do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your
Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC

[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Alan
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc),
or ifuse makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be
accessed from anywhere.
(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver
- I've not tried that)

MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) as present in Android, works
perfectly in Linux, on several file browsers. I don't have an
iPhone nor my friends, so I haven't tried there.

AFAIK, the easiest method with iPhone/iPad devices is to use PTP
(Picture Transfer Protocol), not MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) to
access the photo storage of the device, i.e. what is DCIM\Camera on
Android. On Windows, that will show the device as a camera, not a
phone. If Linux can - automatically - use PTP, then that should also
work on Linux.

AFAIK, Linux uses PTP if the phone (Android) decides to activate only PTP.

That means that you *could* test if an iPhone is likely to work in
PTP mode: Just connect your Android phone to your Linux system and in
the 'USB settings' of the phone select 'Transferring images' (is PTP
mode) instead of 'Transferring files / Auto Auto' (is MTP mode).

Oh, yes, my Android phone certainly works in this mode, but I almost
never do.

Of course you don't use it in that mode, I don't either. It's just a
*test* to determine if an *iPhone* is likely to work in the same way.
From your positive test result, it's likely that an iPhone will work as
well.

I just by chance tried it minutes ago, and of course it worked.

[Dave Royal]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Theo

Post by Carlos E.R.
...

Post by Alan

Post by knuttle
Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.
Especially how do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your
Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC

[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Alan
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc),
or ifuse makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be
accessed from anywhere.
(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver
- I've not tried that)

MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) as present in Android, works
perfectly in Linux, on several file browsers. I don't have an
iPhone nor my friends, so I haven't tried there.

AFAIK, the easiest method with iPhone/iPad devices is to use PTP
(Picture Transfer Protocol), not MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) to
access the photo storage of the device, i.e. what is DCIM\Camera on
Android. On Windows, that will show the device as a camera, not a
phone. If Linux can - automatically - use PTP, then that should also
work on Linux.

AFAIK, Linux uses PTP if the phone (Android) decides to activate only PTP.

That means that you *could* test if an iPhone is likely to work in
PTP mode: Just connect your Android phone to your Linux system and in
the 'USB settings' of the phone select 'Transferring images' (is PTP
mode) instead of 'Transferring files / Auto Auto' (is MTP mode).

Oh, yes, my Android phone certainly works in this mode, but I almost
never do.

Of course you don't use it in that mode, I don't either. It's just a
*test* to determine if an *iPhone* is likely to work in the same way.
From your positive test result, it's likely that an iPhone will work as
well.

I just by chance tried it minutes ago, and of course it worked.

FWIW if I connect my iPhone (8) to Linux (SuSE) it mounts DCIM
as a gvfs filesystem under gvfsd-fuse. In thunar it appears as a
gphoto2: URL. So I see images and videos taken by the camera.
Unlike with Android, that's all I can access.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Dave Royal

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Theo

Post by Carlos E.R.
...

Post by Alan

Post by knuttle
Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.
Especially how do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your
Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC

[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Alan
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

https://libimobiledevice.org/
which is used by various file managers (Dolphin, Nautilus, etc),
or ifuse makes it available as a FUSE filesystem that can be
accessed from anywhere.
(it's possible native MTP works for photo access without a driver
- I've not tried that)

MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) as present in Android, works
perfectly in Linux, on several file browsers. I don't have an
iPhone nor my friends, so I haven't tried there.

AFAIK, the easiest method with iPhone/iPad devices is to use PTP
(Picture Transfer Protocol), not MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) to
access the photo storage of the device, i.e. what is DCIM\Camera on
Android. On Windows, that will show the device as a camera, not a
phone. If Linux can - automatically - use PTP, then that should also
work on Linux.

AFAIK, Linux uses PTP if the phone (Android) decides to activate only PTP.

That means that you *could* test if an iPhone is likely to work in
PTP mode: Just connect your Android phone to your Linux system and in
the 'USB settings' of the phone select 'Transferring images' (is PTP
mode) instead of 'Transferring files / Auto Auto' (is MTP mode).

Oh, yes, my Android phone certainly works in this mode, but I almost
never do.

Of course you don't use it in that mode, I don't either. It's just a
*test* to determine if an *iPhone* is likely to work in the same way.
From your positive test result, it's likely that an iPhone will work as
well.

I just by chance tried it minutes ago, and of course it worked.

FWIW if I connect my iPhone (8) to Linux (SuSE) it mounts DCIM
as a gvfs filesystem under gvfsd-fuse. In thunar it appears as a
gphoto2: URL. So I see images and videos taken by the camera.
Unlike with Android, that's all I can access.

Ah. Thanks, that's the information that was missing.

[Alan]

Post by Carlos E.R.
...

Post by Alan

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.  Especially how
do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

'Import to your Windows PC
You can import photos to your PC by connecting your device to your
Install the Apple Devices app from the Microsoft Store.
Connect your iPhone or iPad to your PC with a USB cable.
If asked, unlock your iOS or iPadOS device using your passcode.
If you see a prompt on your iOS or iPadOS device asking you to Trust
This Computer, tap Trust or Allow to continue.'
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/120267>
Done!

How about Linux? Just curious.

I don't know about Linux, sorry.

I do computer support for a living and I've had precisely one client in
more than 25 years of doing this who had a Linux system.

[David Woolley]

Post by Alan
I do computer support for a living and I've had precisely one client in
more than 25 years of doing this who had a Linux system.

So you don't serve companies that use Android phones? You will also
find Linux embedded in many devices, such as TV set top boxes, routers,
industrial control systems, etc.

[Alan]

Post by Alan
I do computer support for a living and I've had precisely one client
in more than 25 years of doing this who had a Linux system.

So you don't serve companies that use Android phones?  You will also
find Linux embedded in many devices, such as TV set top boxes, routers,
industrial control systems, etc.

I don't consider a device with an OS that one never interacts with
directly to have an OS that I support.

[Andrew]

Post by David Woolley

Post by Alan
I do computer support for a living and I've had precisely one client in
more than 25 years of doing this who had a Linux system.

So you don't serve companies that use Android phones? You will also
find Linux embedded in many devices, such as TV set top boxes, routers,
industrial control systems, etc.

Just so you know whom you're dealing with, this Alan Baker Apple troll
(who claims to "support" customers and yet has never even once used Windows
or Linux or Android) had insisted for weeks on end that it's physically
impossible to change any of the headers in a Usenet post - specifically he
swore over & over that it's impossible to add a spoofed news client header.

Who is *that* stupid?

He's insisted that simply by owning a BMW he knows everything about it, and
yet, he doesn't even know the difference between a bimmer & a beemer
(which, I might add, originated in the UK racing circles).

Who is *that* stupid?

Speaking of racing circles, this Alan Baker moron claims to be an expert in
racing such that he claims he "teaches" racing - and yet - he has no idea
what curves are called. To him - all curves are exactly the same in all
ways.

His IQ, if it's even 40, would be overstating his ability to think.

There's a reason he's one of fewer than ten people I've plonked in decades
on Usenet. He simply disputes everything he doesn't have any knowledge of.

Which is everything.

Just watch.

[Alan]

Post by Andrew

Post by Alan
I do computer support for a living and I've had precisely one client
in more than 25 years of doing this who had a Linux system.

So you don't serve companies that use Android phones?  You will also
find Linux embedded in many devices, such as TV set top boxes,
routers, industrial control systems, etc.

Just so you know whom you're dealing with, this Alan Baker Apple troll
(who claims to "support" customers and yet has never even once used Windows
or Linux or Android)

Why must you lie about me?

Post by Andrew
had insisted for weeks on end that it's physically
impossible to change any of the headers in a Usenet post - specifically he
swore over & over that it's impossible to add a spoofed news client header.
Who is *that* stupid?
He's insisted that simply by owning a BMW he knows everything about it, and
yet, he doesn't even know the difference between a bimmer & a beemer
(which, I might add, originated in the UK racing circles).

I've never insisted anythign of the kind.

Post by Andrew
Who is *that* stupid?
Speaking of racing circles, this Alan Baker moron claims to be an expert in
racing such that he claims he "teaches" racing - and yet - he has no idea
what curves are called. To him - all curves are exactly the same in all
ways.

1. I claim I teach racing...because I teach racing. Last year I was
chairman of the Race Drivers Committee of the Sports Car Club of BC.

<https://web.archive.org/web/20230422005048/https://www.sccbc.net/about-sccbc/race-drivers/>

"Alan Baker" there? That's me.

'The Race Drivers Committee organizes and operates the SCCBC Race Driver
Training Program. The driver training program is an important part of
preparing to enter the sport of racing at Mission and is a prerequisite
to acquiring a Novice race license. The twice annual Race Driver
Training program provides unparalleled instruction on handling vehicles
under extreme conditions. For more information, visit the Race Drivers
Training Program page.

Membership on the Race Drivers Committee is by invitation only. The
committee is comprised of some of the best racers in British Columbia.
Most committee members have won championships in their class while
others have done consistently well over the years and have proven
themselves capable of excelling in all race conditions.

2. I've never claimed "all curves are exactly the same in all ways."

[Andrew]

Post by knuttle
Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC. Especially how do
you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

Hi Keith,

You're responding to "Alan Baker" who is almost universally plonked by
everyone simply because his responses are merely "nope" to everything.

Even I've plonked him (along with Snit & Jeorg Lorenz), where in decades on
Usenet, my killfile still doesn't contain more than about ten posters.

This Alan Baker troll constantly claims that he, and only he, out of the
billions of people in the world, can do the impossible with iOS & Windows.

And yet, he admits to never having used a Windows PC in his entire life.
How is that?

He just makes it all up as he *hates* iOS doesn't interoperate with any
operating system, least of all Android or Windows (somewhat with Linux).

The fact is that there is no interoperability between Windows & iOS.
a. Copy any movie from any number of PCs to any number of Androids;
b. It just works.

Try that with any number of iOS devices & any number of Windows PCs:
It just does NOT work.

1. You have to add bloatware (e.g., something akin to iTunes)
2. You have to match the Apple ID and login credentials
3. Then, and only then, can you do it with *one* device & *one* PC

You have to do that with every device and every PC.
Wipe out the Apple ID. Add the next one. Wipe that out. Add another.

I have more Apple devices than most people do but even I don't claim to be
able to do the impossible (which Alan Baker always claims only he can do).

HINT: It's actually *easier* to copy movies to iOS from Linux though.
That's because Linux implements iFuse which circumvents the walled garden.

<Loading Image...> Simultaneous Linux, win & iOS
<Loading Image...> How does macOS work with iOS?
<Loading Image...> iOS hacks very often will fail
<Loading Image...> idiot iOS hacks just to copy
<Loading Image...> Android is 2-way fast over USB
<Loading Image...> iOS only DCIM & only 1-way
<Loading Image...> iOS is just a dumb brick
<Loading Image...> Ubuntu is two-way, everything
<Loading Image...> Ubuntu uses iFuse for magic
<Loading Image...> Ubuntu, movies _to_ iOS on USB
<Loading Image...> Ubuntu is two way, everything
<Loading Image...> Android is two way, everything
<Loading Image...> iOS "Files" is not useful
<Loading Image...> iOS/Win is 1-way & DCIM only

[Alan]

Post by Andrew

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.  Especially how
do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

Hi Keith,
You're responding to "Alan Baker" who is almost universally plonked by
everyone simply because his responses are merely "nope" to everything.
Even I've plonked him (along with Snit & Jeorg Lorenz), where in decades on
Usenet, my killfile still doesn't contain more than about ten posters.
This Alan Baker troll constantly claims that he, and only he, out of the
billions of people in the world, can do the impossible with iOS & Windows.
And yet, he admits to never having used a Windows PC in his entire life.
How is that?

I've never said that.

In fact, I support Windows PCs and their users every day, and I have a
Lenovo laptop which I access using Microsoft Remote Desktop so I can
take advantage of my Macs far superior display and mouse tracking.

[Your Name]

Post by knuttle

Post by Alan

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Apple called USB-C "terrifying" because Apple has never had any
intention
of any device in the walled garden interoperating with anything else.

And yet they interoperate with all other computers just fine. They'd be
pretty useless if they didn't.

Anyone who claims iOS interoperates with Windows knows nothing about iOS.
1. Plug an Android & iOS device into two USB ports on any Windows PC;
   (In fact, plug any number of them into any number of Windows PCs!)
2. Copy a few movies from each Windows PC to each of those devices;
3. Oh wait. You can't. Not with the Apple devices you can't.

False.

Post by Andrew
Apple murdered interoperability.
FACT: The iOS device does NOT interoperate with Windows.

False.
Not interoperating the way YOU want them to is not the same thing.

Post by Andrew
Not only is that task impossible to do on Windows without adding
additional
bloatware (e.g., the iTunes abomination which Apple clearly has never
tested for bugs - which is why iTunes is always full of zero-day
holes!)...

False.

Post by Andrew
But...
You have to create an Apple ID on every single Windows PC in order to
do it
(even with the iTunes bloatware abomination).
But wait... there's more...
That Apple ID has to *match* that of each iOS device.

Nope. False.

Post by Andrew
Fancy that.
A. You take five Android devices - they all interoperate with Windows.
B. You take five iOS devices - you need to create FIVE DIFFERENT APPLE
IDs!

Completely false.

Post by Andrew
The fact is clear that Apple devices do not interoperate with Windows.
a. Android devices easily copy movies to any Windows device, while
b. Apple devices can't copy anything to any Windows device
   (without adding matching Apple Id's & without adding bloatware)
Apple murdered interoperability.
Anyone who claims otherwise knows absolutely nothing about iOS.

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC. Especially how do
you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

Another idiot troll for the killfile. :-\

[Andrew]

how do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

Hi Keith,

Images are actually easy to copy in *that* direction (from iOS to PC).
But Apple doesn't give the user any say in the file names.
So they're all idiotic sophomoric numberical meaningless names for each.

But try to move anything other than images from iOS to Windows and
everything becomes harder - and then - try to go the other way
(i.e., from Windows to iOS) and then try it on another iOS device.
<https://i.postimg.cc/mDx3xkp4/files09.jpg> iOS only DCIM & only 1-way

Note Apple's coding team sucks so badly they can't even figure out how to
allow the user to name the image files in a way that makes any sense.

It's yet another instance of where Apple hates you.
Apple doesn't think you should have any control over the image file name!

But try to copy something other than an image file and nothing works.
Apple murdered interoperability.

For each of those steps, Apple blocks interoperability in a different way,
e.g., you need to know the Apple ID (aka Apple Account) for every iOS
device and you need to know the password and you need to wipe it out and
then do it again with the *next* device, etc., and even then, you can only
import/export where Apple allows you to (which is almost nowhere, e.g., you
can't import/export IPA files and then install them on a *different* iOS
device (even free IPAs) - whereas with Android - all this just works.

To show you how fantastic Windows is with APKs from Android, all I have to
do is *slide* the APK from Windows to the Android display to install them.
<Loading Image...> Drag APK from Windows

Yup. You just *slide* the APK from Windows to the image of Android.
And it automatically installs that app.

You can slide a hundred APKs to one Android from one PC & they install.
You can slide another hundred to another set of Androids, & they install.

It just works.
You can even mount your entire Android phone as a Windows drive letter.
<Loading Image...> Windows Drive: <===> Android

That's interoperability!

[Alan]

Post by Andrew

how do you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

Hi Keith,
Images are actually easy to copy in *that* direction (from iOS to PC).
But Apple doesn't give the user any say in the file names.
So they're all idiotic sophomoric numberical meaningless names for each.

They're numbered sequentially and have LOTS of metadata...

Post by Andrew
But try to move anything other than images from iOS to Windows and
everything becomes harder - and then - try to go the other way (i.e.,
from Windows to iOS) and then try it on another iOS device.
<https://i.postimg.cc/mDx3xkp4/files09.jpg> iOS only DCIM & only 1-way
Note Apple's coding team sucks so badly they can't even figure out how to
allow the user to name the image files in a way that makes any sense.

It's yet another instance of where Apple hates you.

Apple doesn't think you should have any control over the image file name!

The images are named sequentially, but can be renamed once their on your
PC. They also have metadata associated with them such as the time and
place they were taken and the exposure, etc.

Post by Andrew
But try to copy something other than an image file and nothing works.
Apple murdered interoperability.

<https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/devices-windows/mchl4bd77d3a/windows>

Post by Andrew
For each of those steps, Apple blocks interoperability in a different way,
e.g., you need to know the Apple ID (aka Apple Account) for every iOS
device and you need to know the password and you need to wipe it out and

Utterly false.

Post by Andrew
then do it again with the *next* device, etc., and even then, you can only
import/export where Apple allows you to (which is almost nowhere, e.g., you
can't import/export IPA files and then install them on a *different* iOS
device (even free IPAs) - whereas with Android - all this just works.

And then the rest of this is just off-topic ranting.

Post by Andrew
To show you how fantastic Windows is with APKs from Android, all I have to
do is *slide* the APK from Windows to the Android display to install them.
<https://i.postimg.cc/wvsbcNBz/scrcpy05.jpg> Drag APK from Windows
Yup. You just *slide* the APK from Windows to the image of Android.
And it automatically installs that app.
You can slide a hundred APKs to one Android from one PC & they install.
You can slide another hundred to another set of Androids, & they install.
It just works.
You can even mount your entire Android phone as a Windows drive letter.
<https://i.postimg.cc/9FJMKYch/scrcpy21.jpg> Windows Drive: <===> Android
That's interoperability!

[David Wade]

Post by Alan

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Apple called USB-C "terrifying" because Apple has never had any intention
of any device in the walled garden interoperating with anything else.

And yet they interoperate with all other computers just fine. They'd be
pretty useless if they didn't.

Anyone who claims iOS interoperates with Windows knows nothing about iOS.
1. Plug an Android & iOS device into two USB ports on any Windows PC;
   (In fact, plug any number of them into any number of Windows PCs!)
2. Copy a few movies from each Windows PC to each of those devices;
3. Oh wait. You can't. Not with the Apple devices you can't.

False.

Post by Andrew
Apple murdered interoperability.
FACT: The iOS device does NOT interoperate with Windows.

False.
Not interoperating the way YOU want them to is not the same thing.

Post by Andrew
Not only is that task impossible to do on Windows without adding additional
bloatware (e.g., the iTunes abomination which Apple clearly has never
tested for bugs - which is why iTunes is always full of zero-day holes!)...

False.

Post by Andrew
But...
You have to create an Apple ID on every single Windows PC in order to do it
(even with the iTunes bloatware abomination).
But wait... there's more...
That Apple ID has to *match* that of each iOS device.

Nope. False.

Post by Andrew
Fancy that.
A. You take five Android devices - they all interoperate with Windows.
B. You take five iOS devices - you need to create FIVE DIFFERENT APPLE IDs!

Completely false.

Post by Andrew
The fact is clear that Apple devices do not interoperate with Windows.
a. Android devices easily copy movies to any Windows device, while
b. Apple devices can't copy anything to any Windows device
   (without adding matching Apple Id's & without adding bloatware)
Apple murdered interoperability.
Anyone who claims otherwise knows absolutely nothing about iOS.

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.  Especially how do
you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

Well I use the same way on both my Android Phone and my Wifes iPhone.
Installed Microsoft OneDrive and it copies all photos to our one drives,
one drive on the PC copies them back. They then get backup up to a NAS
box by a scheduled task on the PC that runs every Sunday at 7.00.

They are always there I never miss a photo. Despite all the slagging off
of the cloud, its a lot more reliable than my 70 year old brain...

Dave

[unknown]

Please explain how to get an apple to work with a PC.  Especially how do
you get pictures from you Apple phone to your Windows 10 PC

Its all automatic here. Why people are desperately trying to do it
manually using USB cables is a mystery to me.

Install iTunes on your PC. Not the fake iTunes in the "Microsoft
Store". The REAL iTunes from Apple. Set it up to automagically
download photos from your iCloud account. I have all my photos on my
iPads/iPhone and Windows 7/10/11 PCs. Added bonus is that the photos
on your PC are permanent. Deleting pics from your iPhone/iPad/iCloud
are NOT removed from your PC. So its an automatic, local, full backup
of your iCloud photos. Could not be easier.

Apple loves me.

Its 2025. These things can and should be automated. But if you want to
live in 2005 - where you plugged your camera into your PC and manually
transferred photos - then knock yourself out.

[Andrew]

Post by unknown
Apple loves me.

The proof that Apple hates you is simply that it costs you lots of money to
maintain that expensive iCloud account (over the free 5GB which is a
pittance) even if you have other ways of slightly increasing the free
allocation.

Why do you think Apple doesn't allow you to insert a ten dollar 256GB card?
Apple hates you (but loves your money).

Why do you think Apple removed the aux jack?
Apple hates you (but loves your money).

Why do you think Apple uses the cheapest batteries in the industry?
Apple hates you (but loves your money).

Why do you think Apple removed the charger (claiming it's "green" for them
to do so)? Apple hates you (but loves your money).

Why do you think only Apple uses non proprietary cabling for its devices.
Apple hates you (but loves your money).

Why do you think Apple forces you to log into their privacy robbing servers
24/7./365 just for the privilege of copying files from one device to
another?

Apple hates you (but loves your money).

With respect to universal chargers, Apple murdered interoperability; but...
the EU is forcing Apple to NOT hate you for the first time in its history.

Note: Same with batteries where Apple is no longer allowed to sell their
iPhones in Europe which fail the minimum charge cycle lifetime limits.

Nobody else failed.
Just Apple.

Why?
Apple hates you.

[Chris]

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Apple called USB-C "terrifying" because Apple has never had any intention
of any device in the walled garden interoperating with anything else.

And yet they interoperate with all other computers just fine. They'd be
pretty useless if they didn't.

Anyone who claims iOS interoperates with Windows knows nothing about iOS.

You made a blanket statement about Apple devices. Not iOS.

Post by Andrew
1. Plug an Android & iOS device into two USB ports on any Windows PC;
(In fact, plug any number of them into any number of Windows PCs!)
2. Copy a few movies from each Windows PC to each of those devices;
3. Oh wait. You can't. Not with the Apple devices you can't.
Apple murdered interoperability.
FACT: The iOS device does NOT interoperate with Windows.
Not only is that task impossible to do on Windows without adding additional
bloatware (e.g., the iTunes abomination which Apple clearly has never
tested for bugs - which is why iTunes is always full of zero-day holes!)...

And yet you claim to be able to access the whole iOS operating system...?
Were you lying?

[ snip untruths ]

[Andrew]

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Anyone who claims iOS interoperates with Windows knows nothing about iOS.

You made a blanket statement about Apple devices. Not iOS.

WTF?

These are all mobile device groups - so it's presumed you understand that.

*How to read/write access iOS file systems on Ubuntu/Windows over USB cable*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/z_KXY4IHLe0>

The fact you don't realize these are mobile phone groups is your problem.
Not mine.

Stop disputing everything simply because you are ignorant Chris.
It's annoying to have to defend what everyone already knows - except you.

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Not only is that task impossible to do on Windows without adding additional
bloatware (e.g., the iTunes abomination which Apple clearly has never
tested for bugs - which is why iTunes is always full of zero-day holes!)...

And yet you claim to be able to access the whole iOS operating system...?

Jesus Christ, Chris.

You dispute everything simply because you're stupid, Chris.
It's not my fault you're stupid. You can fix that. Read the links provided.

With iFuse, you can access even the internal system files of iOS, Chris.

*Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth*
*over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native devices*
*(no proprietary software needed)*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/WqIDiVbawRs/>

Post by Chris
Were you lying?

OMG, Chris!
Stop accusing me of "lying" simply because you're stupid, Chris.

Your utter ignorance of everything doesn't constitute me lying, Chris.
It just means you're incredibly stupid. And I'm not.

So we can't converse, mano a mano, until you triple your low IQ first.

Read this before responding please - do not respond until you read it!
*How to copy files both ways anywhere you want to/from iPhone/iPad*
*over USB between Windows & iOS using Linux*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/Nxyt6qmE7YA/>

[Alan]

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Anyone who claims iOS interoperates with Windows knows nothing about iOS.

You made a blanket statement about Apple devices. Not iOS.

WTF?
These are all mobile device groups - so it's presumed you understand that.
*How to read/write access iOS file systems on Ubuntu/Windows over USB cable*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/z_KXY4IHLe0>
The fact you don't realize these are mobile phone groups is your problem.
Not mine.
Stop disputing everything simply because you are ignorant Chris.
It's annoying to have to defend what everyone already knows - except you.

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Not only is that task impossible to do on Windows without adding additional
bloatware (e.g., the iTunes abomination which Apple clearly has never
tested for bugs - which is why iTunes is always full of zero-day holes!)...

And yet you claim to be able to access the whole iOS operating system...?

Jesus Christ, Chris.
You dispute everything simply because you're stupid, Chris.
It's not my fault you're stupid. You can fix that. Read the links provided.
With iFuse, you can access even the internal system files of iOS, Chris.
*Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth*
*over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native devices*
*(no proprietary software needed)*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/WqIDiVbawRs/>

Post by Chris
Were you lying?

OMG, Chris!
Stop accusing me of "lying" simply because you're stupid, Chris.
Your utter ignorance of everything doesn't constitute me lying, Chris.
It just means you're incredibly stupid. And I'm not.
So we can't converse, mano a mano, until you triple your low IQ first.
Read this before responding please - do not respond until you read it!
*How to copy files both ways anywhere you want to/from iPhone/iPad*
*over USB between Windows & iOS using Linux*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/Nxyt6qmE7YA/>

You're lying or really, really stupid...

...or, most likely of all, both!

[Chris]

< your snip of relevant information here is noted >

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Anyone who claims iOS interoperates with Windows knows nothing about iOS.

You made a blanket statement about Apple devices. Not iOS.

WTF?
These are all mobile device groups - so it's presumed you understand that.
*How to read/write access iOS file systems on Ubuntu/Windows over USB cable*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/z_KXY4IHLe0>
The fact you don't realize these are mobile phone groups is your problem.
Not mine.
Stop disputing everything simply because you are ignorant Chris.
It's annoying to have to defend what everyone already knows - except you.

Your baseless assertions are not what "everyone knows".

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris

Post by Andrew
Not only is that task impossible to do on Windows without adding additional
bloatware (e.g., the iTunes abomination which Apple clearly has never
tested for bugs - which is why iTunes is always full of zero-day holes!)...

And yet you claim to be able to access the whole iOS operating system...?

Jesus Christ, Chris.
You dispute everything simply because you're stupid, Chris.
It's not my fault you're stupid. You can fix that. Read the links provided.
With iFuse, you can access even the internal system files of iOS, Chris.
*Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth*
*over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native devices*
*(no proprietary software needed)*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/WqIDiVbawRs/>

Thanks for confirming what is possible despite claiming it is impossible.

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris
Were you lying?

OMG, Chris!
Stop accusing me of "lying" simply because you're stupid, Chris.
Your utter ignorance of everything doesn't constitute me lying, Chris.
It just means you're incredibly stupid. And I'm not.
So we can't converse, mano a mano, until you triple your low IQ first.
Read this before responding please - do not respond until you read it!
*How to copy files both ways anywhere you want to/from iPhone/iPad*
*over USB between Windows & iOS using Linux*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/Nxyt6qmE7YA/>

[Alan]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Nick Cine

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Abandoned Trolley

�By allowing consumers to purchase a new device without a new charger, it
will also reduce the mountain of obsolete chargers, the bloc has argued.�

I have just bought a Samsung phone, which came in a slim box - because
no charger was included

I recently bought an LED work light that was supplied without a
charger but with a short USB A - USB C lead, and which was equipped
with ports for both, giving maximum flexibility. It also claims to be
capable of charging connected devices but I haven't tried that.
I also have installed several 13a sockets with built-in USB A charging
sockets.

After 11 years of imprisonment inside the walled garden, Apple was finally
forced to bow to human decency by releasing its slaves from their bondage.
https://www.wired.com/story/apple-iphone-15-usb-c/

«Apple has gradually added USB-C ports to its other hardware over the
past few years. It was the first to put USB-C on a laptop in 2015. Then
iPads started the transition from Lightning to USB-C. You can say the
iPhone was inevitably going to be next in line, but Apple has been
collecting licensing fees from third parties that make accessories
utilizing the Lightning port through the company's Made for iPhone (MFi)
program. Why lose out on all that cash? Apple's hand was forced by the
European Union, which passed a law in 2022 requiring phones, tablets,
and cameras sold in the region to come equipped with a USB-C port by the
end of 2024.»
Interoperability :-)

Spare me.

The MFi program isn't even a rounding error in Apple's revenues.

[Alan]

Post by Nick Cine

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Abandoned Trolley

�By allowing consumers to purchase a new device without a new charger, it
will also reduce the mountain of obsolete chargers, the bloc has argued.�

I have just bought a Samsung phone, which came in a slim box - because
no charger was included

I recently bought an LED work light that was supplied without a
charger but with a short USB A - USB C lead, and which was equipped
with ports for both, giving maximum flexibility. It also claims to be
capable of charging connected devices but I haven't tried that.
I also have installed several 13a sockets with built-in USB A charging
sockets.

After 11 years of imprisonment inside the walled garden, Apple was finally
forced to bow to human decency by releasing its slaves from their bondage.
https://www.wired.com/story/apple-iphone-15-usb-c/

Oh, get over yourself.

[Alan]

Post by Abandoned Trolley

Post by Spike
“By allowing consumers to purchase a new device without a new charger, it
will also reduce the mountain of obsolete chargers, the bloc has argued.”

I have just bought a Samsung phone, which came in a slim box - because
no charger was included

I just bought an iPhone 16, and it was the same.

I have something like half a dozen chargers I can use with it, including
the two-port USB-C charger that came with my M3 MacBook Air.

[Chris]

Post by Abandoned Trolley

Post by Spike
“By allowing consumers to purchase a new device without a new charger, it
will also reduce the mountain of obsolete chargers, the bloc has argued.”

I have just bought a Samsung phone, which came in a slim box - because
no charger was included

Same with wireless earpods. Didn't come with a charger.

Nor a Roku media steamer.

[Stan Brown]

Post by Abandoned Trolley
I have just bought a Samsung phone, which came in a slim box - because
no charger was included

Ditto my Google Pixel 8a, purchased at the end of November. the box
contained a USB-C cable, and a USB-A (female) to USB-C (male) dongle.
I have no use for the dongle.

A two-port Anker USB-C charger stays plugged into my UPS, next to a
two-port Anker USB-A charger for a couple of very old devices.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Stan Brown

Post by Abandoned Trolley
I have just bought a Samsung phone, which came in a slim box - because
no charger was included

Ditto my Google Pixel 8a, purchased at the end of November. the box
contained a USB-C cable, and a USB-A (female) to USB-C (male) dongle.
I have no use for the dongle.

The dongle is probably for being able to connect two phones together
(by means of the correct USB-something to USB-A cable) to transfer all
one's stuff from one's 'old' phone to one's 'new' phone.

Samsung has its Smart Switch app to do such transfers from most
Android phones to a Samsung phone, which can use the USB dongle+cable
(or Wi-Fi).

My advice is to keep the USB dongle, it may come in handy one day.

[...]

[Andy Burns]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Stan Brown

Post by Stan Brown
my Google Pixel 8a, purchased at the end of November. the box

contained a USB-C cable, and a USB-A (female) to USB-C (male) dongle.
I have no use for the dongle.

The dongle is probably for being able to connect two phones together
(by means of the correct USB-something to USB-A cable) to transfer all
one's stuff from one's 'old' phone to one's 'new' phone.

I think the most recent phone I bought which used a cable to do the data
migration was Pixel3, can't remember what the pixel5a did, NFC bonk perhaps?

The pixel8a just needed a QR code scanning from one phone to the other
and leave them to it ...

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Stan Brown

Post by Stan Brown
my Google Pixel 8a, purchased at the end of November. the box

contained a USB-C cable, and a USB-A (female) to USB-C (male) dongle.
I have no use for the dongle.

The dongle is probably for being able to connect two phones together
(by means of the correct USB-something to USB-A cable) to transfer all
one's stuff from one's 'old' phone to one's 'new' phone.

I think the most recent phone I bought which used a cable to do the data
migration was Pixel3, can't remember what the pixel5a did, NFC bonk perhaps?
The pixel8a just needed a QR code scanning from one phone to the other
and leave them to it ...

You aren't an Apple seed, who get their knickers in a twist at the
near mention of USB, are you!? :-)

As I mentioned, a USB cable is just an option. There are others like
Wi-Fi (direct), 'cloud', etc.. What is faster probably depends on the
hardware of both phones and your network. In my case, I used Wi-Fi
(direct).

[Andrew]

Post by Frank Slootweg
As I mentioned, a USB cable is just an option. There are others like
Wi-Fi (direct), 'cloud', etc.. What is faster probably depends on the
hardware of both phones and your network. In my case, I used Wi-Fi
(direct).

Frank is correct that with Android & Windows, there are many options.

For example, I connect my Android phone over Wi-Fi as a Windows drive
letter all the time - such that batch scripts work fine copying files.

In addition, USB works even better (in that there is much less setup).

Better yet, only Android has portable memory - which Apple has never had.

With portable memory, if you're intelligent enough to realize that each
sdcard has a volume label that you can set yourself when formatting, then
you can format your volume label to XXXX-XXXX (or whatever) and if you do
that, you can swap out sdcards any time you want and the phone won't even
know you did that.

An example I've recently done is I doubled the size of my sdcard.

On Windows:
a. I formatted the *new* sdcard to the same volume label as the old
b. I copied all the old sdcard data to the new sdcard
c. I swapped them out

The phone didn't even realize I had done that, where all the data worked
perfectly - and yet - I went from 64GB of external sdcard to 128 GB.

By way of contrast, iOS is so brain dead, it can't do anything like that.
Apple hates you.

[Alan]

Post by Andrew

  As I mentioned, a USB cable is just an option. There are others like
Wi-Fi (direct), 'cloud', etc.. What is faster probably depends on the
hardware of both phones and your network. In my case, I used Wi-Fi
(direct).

Frank is correct that with Android & Windows, there are many options.
For example, I connect my Android phone over Wi-Fi as a Windows drive
letter all the time - such that batch scripts work fine copying files.
In addition, USB works even better (in that there is much less setup).
Better yet, only Android has portable memory - which Apple has never had.
With portable memory, if you're intelligent enough to realize that each
sdcard has a volume label that you can set yourself when formatting, then
you can format your volume label to XXXX-XXXX (or whatever) and if you do
that, you can swap out sdcards any time you want and the phone won't even
know you did that.
An example I've recently done is I doubled the size of my sdcard.
a. I formatted the *new* sdcard to the same volume label as the old
b. I copied all the old sdcard data to the new sdcard c. I swapped them out
The phone didn't even realize I had done that, where all the data worked
perfectly - and yet - I went from 64GB of external sdcard to 128 GB.
By way of contrast, iOS is so brain dead, it can't do anything like that.
Apple hates you.

Apple chose not to provide SDCard functionality.

It doesn't mean they "hate" anyone.

[Zaidy036]

Post by Alan

Post by Andrew

  As I mentioned, a USB cable is just an option. There are others like
Wi-Fi (direct), 'cloud', etc.. What is faster probably depends on the
hardware of both phones and your network. In my case, I used Wi-Fi
(direct).

Frank is correct that with Android & Windows, there are many options.
For example, I connect my Android phone over Wi-Fi as a Windows drive
letter all the time - such that batch scripts work fine copying files.
In addition, USB works even better (in that there is much less setup).
Better yet, only Android has portable memory - which Apple has never had.
With portable memory, if you're intelligent enough to realize that each
sdcard has a volume label that you can set yourself when formatting, then
you can format your volume label to XXXX-XXXX (or whatever) and if you do
that, you can swap out sdcards any time you want and the phone won't even
know you did that.
An example I've recently done is I doubled the size of my sdcard.
a. I formatted the *new* sdcard to the same volume label as the old
b. I copied all the old sdcard data to the new sdcard c. I swapped them out
The phone didn't even realize I had done that, where all the data worked
perfectly - and yet - I went from 64GB of external sdcard to 128 GB.
By way of contrast, iOS is so brain dead, it can't do anything like that.
Apple hates you.

Apple chose not to provide SDCard functionality.
It doesn't mean they "hate" anyone.

DropBox and eMail are easy transfers also

[Alan]

Post by Zaidy036

Post by Alan

Post by Andrew

  As I mentioned, a USB cable is just an option. There are others like
Wi-Fi (direct), 'cloud', etc.. What is faster probably depends on the
hardware of both phones and your network. In my case, I used Wi-Fi
(direct).

Frank is correct that with Android & Windows, there are many options.
For example, I connect my Android phone over Wi-Fi as a Windows drive
letter all the time - such that batch scripts work fine copying files.
In addition, USB works even better (in that there is much less setup).
Better yet, only Android has portable memory - which Apple has never had.
With portable memory, if you're intelligent enough to realize that each
sdcard has a volume label that you can set yourself when formatting, then
you can format your volume label to XXXX-XXXX (or whatever) and if you do
that, you can swap out sdcards any time you want and the phone won't even
know you did that.
An example I've recently done is I doubled the size of my sdcard.
a. I formatted the *new* sdcard to the same volume label as the old
b. I copied all the old sdcard data to the new sdcard c. I swapped them out
The phone didn't even realize I had done that, where all the data worked
perfectly - and yet - I went from 64GB of external sdcard to 128 GB.
By way of contrast, iOS is so brain dead, it can't do anything like that.
Apple hates you.

Apple chose not to provide SDCard functionality.
It doesn't mean they "hate" anyone.

DropBox and eMail are easy transfers also

Dropbox, Google Drive, iCloud Drive, OneDrive...

...the list is long.

[Andrew]

Post by Zaidy036
DropBox and eMail are easy transfers also

In other words, the only solution for copying 128 GB (or so) of data from
any Apple device that is five inches away from any Windows PC is to use the
classic Apple clusterfuck method of purchasing an expensive cloud account
and then transferring 128GB (or so) of data from that dumb iOS device to
someone elses' (expensive) servers on the Internet and then copy that 128
GB (or so) back to the PC which was five inches away the entire time.

The fact that Apple clusterfuck is how you'd do it proves the maxim:
*Apple hates you*

[Andy Burns]

Post by Andrew
Frank is correct that with Android & Windows, there are many options.

I wasn't talking about general data transfer to/from android, but the
out-of-the-box "wizard" that transfers apps, data and settings from old
phone to new phone, which is a slick process.

[Andrew]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Andrew
Frank is correct that with Android & Windows, there are many options.

I wasn't talking about general data transfer to/from android, but the
out-of-the-box "wizard" that transfers apps, data and settings from old
phone to new phone, which is a slick process.

I understand. Thanks for clarifying. I'm one of the best on earth for
migrating apps and data so I don't need all those marketing crutches.

However, I agree that "migration" from one phone to another is pretty well
handled nowadays (whether the owner is migrating an iOS or Android device).

All the highly marketed migration strategies simply involve "the cloud".
(IMHO)

Me?

I put nothing on "the cloud" so my migration is pre-planned years ahead.

For example, my app migration is planned years ahead of time.
1. All my apps APKs are automatically backed up at the time of install.
2. My highly-organized home screen is periodically backed up.
3. I can install all my apps in a few seconds by sliding them over.
4. They always go EXACTLY in the new phone where they were in the old.

As for my data migration, that's even easier:
1. I format my external sd card to a known volume name.
2. I tell all my apps (if possible) to store data on that external card.
3. I just pluck the card out of the old phone & pop it into the new phone.

My migration is nearly 100% successful with those two simple strategies.
None of this can be done with iOS as iOS is a brain dead dumb terminal.

But, if you're intelligent, it can all easily be done with Android.

But I'm probably one out of a million Android users who can do all that.
So are you.

But most people need the clusterfuck of needing to use the cloud for that.

[Stan Brown]

Post by Frank Slootweg
My advice is to keep the USB dongle, it may come in handy one day.

Of course!

[bad sector]

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-universal-
chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

[Jan K.]

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-universal-
chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.

Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42534851

[bad sector]

Post by Jan K.

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-
universal- chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were
"terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42534851

Yeh, I could draw up a very long list of required legislation, all
notion of reason, discipline and oversight has left the entire industry.

[Andrew]

Post by bad sector

Post by Jan K.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42534851

Yeh, I could draw up a very long list of required legislation, all
notion of reason, discipline and oversight has left the entire industry.

By forcing Apple to care about its customers, the EU did everyone a favor.

There's a reason the EU forced Apple to increase the battery capacity, for
example, as Apple wouldn't be able to sell a single iPhone if they did not.

Not a single iPhone prior to that legislation being drafted had anywhere
near the overall long-term battery life of most Android phones.

Even AFTER Apple (barely) complied with the EU's battery-life statutes, no
iPhone even comes close to the overall battery life of most Androids.

Apple hates you.

[Alan]

Post by Andrew

Post by bad sector

Post by Jan K.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42534851

Yeh, I could draw up a very long list of required legislation, all
notion of reason, discipline and oversight has left the entire industry.

By forcing Apple to care about its customers, the EU did everyone a favor.
There's a reason the EU forced Apple to increase the battery capacity, for
example, as Apple wouldn't be able to sell a single iPhone if they did not.

This is false.

Post by Andrew
Not a single iPhone prior to that legislation being drafted had anywhere
near the overall long-term battery life of most Android phones.

This is false.

Post by Andrew
Even AFTER Apple (barely) complied with the EU's battery-life statutes, no
iPhone even comes close to the overall battery life of most Androids.

This is false.

Post by Andrew
Apple hates you.

[Alan]

Post by bad sector

Post by Jan K.

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-
universal- chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42534851

Yeh, I could draw up a very long list of required legislation, all
notion of reason, discipline and oversight has left the entire industry.

Tell us all:

Which industries governed by "long list[s] of required legislation" have
worked out well?

[bad sector]

Post by Alan

Post by bad sector

Post by Jan K.

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-
universal- chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB
inteface wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of
shit the industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42534851

Yeh, I could draw up a very long list of required legislation, all
notion of reason, discipline and oversight has left the entire industry.

Which industries governed by "long list[s] of required legislation" have
worked out well?

Irrelevant, no industry has to work out well, or at all for that matter.
In a democracy it is the majoritary value systen that is supposed to
rule and not 'anything/anyone making money is sacred'. We have
standardized wall outlets instead of a design for each supplier even
though captive houses cannot run away to a different grid.
--
All species of mobile phones, media devices, Bluetooth or not, and
onboard presentation systems beyond what is essential for vehicle
control should automatically disable themselves within 10 meters of any
vehicle in motion at any speed. "Hands-Free does NOT mean Brain-Free".
In the case of approaching vehicles (pedestrian use included) that
distance should be multiplied (prorated) for every 5km/h of CLOSURE
speed (i.e. no such device should be operable within 200 meters of any
vehicle approaching at 100 km/h). Manufacturers of devices in which such
an automatic lockout feature is missing or can be disabled should first
pay large fines and then be barred from the jurisdiction market. With
respect to other road-hog conduct, in addition to intoxication or
attention-diverting use of lethal-technology while driving,
brake-checking and tailgating should also be hanging crimes. Any
irresponsible vehicle handling should in fact be punished exactly as it
would be in the case of irresponsible weapons handling (which ALSO needs
to be beefed up).

[Chris]

Post by Alan

Post by bad sector

Post by Jan K.

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-
universal- chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42534851

Yeh, I could draw up a very long list of required legislation, all
notion of reason, discipline and oversight has left the entire industry.

Which industries governed by "long list[s] of required legislation" have
worked out well?

Domestic airlines is the clearest example. There are plenty others.

[Alan]

Post by Chris

Post by Alan

Post by bad sector

Post by Jan K.

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-
universal- chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42534851

Yeh, I could draw up a very long list of required legislation, all
notion of reason, discipline and oversight has left the entire industry.

Which industries governed by "long list[s] of required legislation" have
worked out well?

Domestic airlines is the clearest example. There are plenty others.

In what world have domestic airlines worked out well for the consumer;
what country?

[Chris]

Post by Alan

Post by Chris

Post by Alan

Post by bad sector

Post by Jan K.

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-
universal- chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42534851

Yeh, I could draw up a very long list of required legislation, all
notion of reason, discipline and oversight has left the entire industry.

Which industries governed by "long list[s] of required legislation" have
worked out well?

Domestic airlines is the clearest example. There are plenty others.

In what world have domestic airlines worked out well for the consumer;
what country?

I mean, not dying is quite an important benefit for the consumer.
Regulation has created the safest form of transport in the world.

[Spike]

Post by Chris

Post by Alan

Post by Chris

Post by Alan

Post by bad sector

Post by Jan K.

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-
universal- chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42534851

Yeh, I could draw up a very long list of required legislation, all
notion of reason, discipline and oversight has left the entire industry.

Which industries governed by "long list[s] of required legislation" have
worked out well?

Domestic airlines is the clearest example. There are plenty others.

In what world have domestic airlines worked out well for the consumer;
what country?

I mean, not dying is quite an important benefit for the consumer.
Regulation has created the safest form of transport in the world.

The safest form of transport is the passenger lift, but of course is
regulated.

[Alan]

Post by Jan K.

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-
universal- chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were
"terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.

Bullshit.

Did they profit? Sure.

"Significantly". No way.

Post by Jan K.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42534851

[Chris]

Post by Jan K.

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-universal-
chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).

Which almost no-one made use of and the only "feature" of it was that
phones regularly broke into three pieces every time they were dropped.

It's cheap to replace batteries currently. Not sure what benefit mandating
it will have.

[Alan]

Post by Chris

Post by Jan K.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).

Which almost no-one made use of and the only "feature" of it was that
phones regularly broke into three pieces every time they were dropped.
It's cheap to replace batteries currently. Not sure what benefit mandating
it will have.

Bear in mind Apple puts the cheapest possible components into the iPhone.

False.

That's why the EU mandates forbid Apple to sell any iPhone in Europe.

False. Literally never ever happened.

Only then did Apple increase the battery capacity of the iPhone, Chris.
And even then, Apple barely made it to the EU minimum battery life, Chris.
Note: Apple trolls don't know the difference between hours in a day vs the
battery lifetime in years. Seriously - Apple trolls are that stupid.

Battery lifetime is measure in CYCLES.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Chris

Post by Jan K.

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-universal-
chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).

Which almost no-one made use of and the only "feature" of it was that
phones regularly broke into three pieces every time they were dropped.
It's cheap to replace batteries currently. Not sure what benefit mandating
it will have.

It is not only phones. I had to replace the battery in my Kobo touch
ebook, and it was difficult.

So yes, I welcome that law a lot.

[Frank Slootweg]

[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Chris

Post by Jan K.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).

Which almost no-one made use of and the only "feature" of it was that
phones regularly broke into three pieces every time they were dropped.
It's cheap to replace batteries currently. Not sure what benefit mandating
it will have.

It is not only phones. I had to replace the battery in my Kobo touch
ebook, and it was difficult.
So yes, I welcome that law a lot.

Same here with my wife's Kobo Auro E2 eReader. Battery charge lasted
only for a few days, when *not* used.

Also other devices with internal rechargeable batteries which are not
replaceable by the user and often also not - or at least not
economically feasible - by the supplier.

For me/us for example, Bluetooth headphone, small Bluetooth
transmitter [1], Fitbit activity trackers ('smartwatches') [2], etc..

Apparently we're supposed to throw these devices away after only a few
years. Not only wasting money, but also wasting precious and limited
materials/metals and addiding to electronic waste.

Of course user/easy replaceable batteries would make these devices
somewhat larger and somewhat more expensive. But I would like to have
that choice.

[1] This one is already basically dead. Only lasts for a few hours after
charging.

[2] Already had to throw away three of those.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Chris

Post by Jan K.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).

Which almost no-one made use of and the only "feature" of it was that
phones regularly broke into three pieces every time they were dropped.
It's cheap to replace batteries currently. Not sure what benefit mandating
it will have.

It is not only phones. I had to replace the battery in my Kobo touch
ebook, and it was difficult.
So yes, I welcome that law a lot.

Same here with my wife's Kobo Auro E2 eReader. Battery charge lasted
only for a few days, when *not* used.

The Kobo Libra Colour announced that it is serviceable. I take it to
mean that there will be spares.

Post by Frank Slootweg
Also other devices with internal rechargeable batteries which are not
replaceable by the user and often also not - or at least not
economically feasible - by the supplier.
For me/us for example, Bluetooth headphone, small Bluetooth
transmitter [1], Fitbit activity trackers ('smartwatches') [2], etc..

Right.

Post by Frank Slootweg
Apparently we're supposed to throw these devices away after only a few
years. Not only wasting money, but also wasting precious and limited
materials/metals and addiding to electronic waste.
Of course user/easy replaceable batteries would make these devices
somewhat larger and somewhat more expensive. But I would like to have
that choice.

Yes.

Post by Frank Slootweg
[1] This one is already basically dead. Only lasts for a few hours after
charging.
[2] Already had to throw away three of those.

:-(

[Davey]

On 31 Dec 2024 12:10:16 GMT

Post by Frank Slootweg
For me/us for example, Bluetooth headphone, small Bluetooth

transmitter [1], Fitbit activity trackers ('smartwatches') [2],

Post by Frank Slootweg
[2] Already had to throw away three of those.

Thereby confirming that the term 'smart' means no such thing. Again.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Davey
On 31 Dec 2024 12:10:16 GMT

Post by Frank Slootweg
For me/us for example, Bluetooth headphone, small Bluetooth

transmitter [1], Fitbit activity trackers ('smartwatches') [2],

Post by Frank Slootweg
[2] Already had to throw away three of those.

Thereby confirming that the term 'smart' means no such thing. Again.

To be fair, Fitbit doesn't call them 'smartwatches', that's why I used
scare quotes, but these devices are also watches - as they tell the time,
have alarms, etc. - and are somwhat 'smart'. AFAIK, there isn't a
clear-cut definition as to what is/isn't a 'smartwatch' (contrary to
what is/isn't a 'smartphone').

[Davey]

On 31 Dec 2024 15:28:03 GMT

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Davey
On 31 Dec 2024 12:10:16 GMT

Post by Frank Slootweg
For me/us for example, Bluetooth headphone, small Bluetooth

transmitter [1], Fitbit activity trackers ('smartwatches') [2],

Post by Frank Slootweg
[2] Already had to throw away three of those.

Thereby confirming that the term 'smart' means no such thing. Again.

To be fair, Fitbit doesn't call them 'smartwatches', that's why I
used scare quotes, but these devices are also watches - as they tell
the time, have alarms, etc. - and are somwhat 'smart'. AFAIK, there
isn't a clear-cut definition as to what is/isn't a
'smartwatch' (contrary to what is/isn't a 'smartphone').

I see 'smartwatches' mainly being used to buy things with, or to
register a loyalty card. Watching somebody with large fingers
'swiping' a 1-inch diameter screen always makes me laugh.
And my scepticism of the 'smart' nomenclature extends to 'smartphones'.
But then, I am a happy Luddite. Just because we can make something,
doesn't mean we have to use it. See: Land-based wind turbines. ULEZ
zones.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Davey
On 31 Dec 2024 15:28:03 GMT

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Davey
On 31 Dec 2024 12:10:16 GMT

Post by Frank Slootweg
For me/us for example, Bluetooth headphone, small Bluetooth

transmitter [1], Fitbit activity trackers ('smartwatches') [2],

Post by Frank Slootweg
[2] Already had to throw away three of those.

Thereby confirming that the term 'smart' means no such thing. Again.

To be fair, Fitbit doesn't call them 'smartwatches', that's why I
used scare quotes, but these devices are also watches - as they tell
the time, have alarms, etc. - and are somwhat 'smart'. AFAIK, there
isn't a clear-cut definition as to what is/isn't a
'smartwatch' (contrary to what is/isn't a 'smartphone').

I see 'smartwatches' mainly being used to buy things with, or to
register a loyalty card. Watching somebody with large fingers
'swiping' a 1-inch diameter screen always makes me laugh.

Exactly, that's what you *see*. What you don't see, is their
'invisible' uses, Not 'defending' smartwatches in any way, but only
objecting to judging things by what one sees.

Post by Davey
And my scepticism of the 'smart' nomenclature extends to 'smartphones'.
But then, I am a happy Luddite. Just because we can make something,
doesn't mean we have to use it. See: Land-based wind turbines. ULEZ
zones.

As to the last two (well, mainly the first one of the two), fully
agreed. Don't get me started! :-(

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Davey
On 31 Dec 2024 15:28:03 GMT

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Davey
On 31 Dec 2024 12:10:16 GMT

Post by Frank Slootweg
For me/us for example, Bluetooth headphone, small Bluetooth

transmitter [1], Fitbit activity trackers ('smartwatches') [2],

Post by Frank Slootweg
[2] Already had to throw away three of those.

Thereby confirming that the term 'smart' means no such thing. Again.

To be fair, Fitbit doesn't call them 'smartwatches', that's why I
used scare quotes, but these devices are also watches - as they tell
the time, have alarms, etc. - and are somwhat 'smart'. AFAIK, there
isn't a clear-cut definition as to what is/isn't a
'smartwatch' (contrary to what is/isn't a 'smartphone').

I see 'smartwatches' mainly being used to buy things with, or to
register a loyalty card. Watching somebody with large fingers
'swiping' a 1-inch diameter screen always makes me laugh.

Exactly, that's what you *see*. What you don't see, is their
'invisible' uses, Not 'defending' smartwatches in any way, but only
objecting to judging things by what one sees.

Years ago, I said I would never wear a smartwatch. Yet here I am, the
happy user of one :-)

The first one very cheap, the second one a better choice, more
expensive, and works much better.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Davey
On 31 Dec 2024 15:28:03 GMT

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Davey
On 31 Dec 2024 12:10:16 GMT

Post by Frank Slootweg
For me/us for example, Bluetooth headphone, small Bluetooth

transmitter [1], Fitbit activity trackers ('smartwatches') [2],

Post by Frank Slootweg
[2] Already had to throw away three of those.

Thereby confirming that the term 'smart' means no such thing. Again.

To be fair, Fitbit doesn't call them 'smartwatches', that's why I
used scare quotes, but these devices are also watches - as they tell
the time, have alarms, etc. - and are somwhat 'smart'. AFAIK, there
isn't a clear-cut definition as to what is/isn't a
'smartwatch' (contrary to what is/isn't a 'smartphone').

I see 'smartwatches' mainly being used to buy things with, or to
register a loyalty card. Watching somebody with large fingers
'swiping' a 1-inch diameter screen always makes me laugh.

Exactly, that's what you *see*. What you don't see, is their
'invisible' uses, Not 'defending' smartwatches in any way, but only
objecting to judging things by what one sees.

Years ago, I said I would never wear a smartwatch. Yet here I am, the
happy user of one :-)
The first one very cheap, the second one a better choice, more
expensive, and works much better.

Yes, and yours and mine can also be used for payments, but as long as
we don't use that functionality, Davey won't notice ('see') that we have
'smartwatches'! :-)

[Chris]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Davey
And my scepticism of the 'smart' nomenclature extends to 'smartphones'.
But then, I am a happy Luddite. Just because we can make something,
doesn't mean we have to use it. See: Land-based wind turbines. ULEZ
zones.

As to the last two (well, mainly the first one of the two), fully
agreed. Don't get me started! :-(

Do you prefer to see the world burn...?

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Chris

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Davey
And my scepticism of the 'smart' nomenclature extends to 'smartphones'.
But then, I am a happy Luddite. Just because we can make something,
doesn't mean we have to use it. See: Land-based wind turbines. ULEZ
zones.

As to the last two (well, mainly the first one of the two), fully
agreed. Don't get me started! :-(

Do you prefer to see the world burn...?

False dilemma. And note that Davey/it says "Land-based". We (The
Netherlands) are a (very) small country and have one of the largest - if
not the largest - conglomerate of at-sea windfarms and justifiably so
(i.e. the lesser of the evils). As to land-based wind turbines, as I
said, don't get me started. Proponents have no clue (read: don't want to
hear) about all the negatives, and no, I do *not* mean 'just' horizon
pollution and audible sound.

EOD.

[Andrew]

Post by Frank Slootweg
False dilemma. And note that Davey/it says "Land-based". We (The
Netherlands) are a (very) small country and have one of the largest - if
not the largest - conglomerate of at-sea windfarms and justifiably so
(i.e. the lesser of the evils). As to land-based wind turbines, as I
said, don't get me started. Proponents have no clue (read: don't want to
hear) about all the negatives, and no, I do *not* mean 'just' horizon
pollution and audible sound.

Interesting distinction.

I googled who has more power generation (all types) from windmills:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+windmill+power+generation+by+country+2024>

Here's a table of all countries, by
<https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/wind-power-by-country>

The USA is number 2 (China is number 1) and the Netherlands number 17.
(1/4 of the USA wind-based power generation is in the state of Texas.)
<https://www.chooseenergy.com/data-center/wind-generation-by-state/>

We should probably normalize that per capita though as size matters.
<https://duckduckgo.com/&q=2024+wind+power+generation+per+capita>

Here's a table of 2023 wind power generation per capita (i.e., per person).
<https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/wind-electricity-per-capita>

Netherlands = 1644KWh
USA = 1251KWh
China = 621KWh

In 2023, the Netherlands produced about 1-1/3rd more power from wind (per
capita) than the USA did, per capita.

[Andrew]

Post by Andrew
Here's a table of 2023 wind power generation per capita (i.e., per person).
<https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/wind-electricity-per-capita>
Netherlands = 1644KWh
USA = 1251KWh
China = 621KWh
In 2023, the Netherlands produced about 1-1/3rd more power from wind (per
capita) than the USA did, per capita.

Since the UK is involved in this discussion, at 1217KWh of wind generation
per person for Great Britain is pretty good by way of comparison.

Netherlands = 1644KWh per capita
USA = 1251KWh per capita
GB = 1217KWh per capita
China = 621KWh per capita

[Chris]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Chris

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Davey
And my scepticism of the 'smart' nomenclature extends to 'smartphones'.
But then, I am a happy Luddite. Just because we can make something,
doesn't mean we have to use it. See: Land-based wind turbines. ULEZ
zones.

As to the last two (well, mainly the first one of the two), fully
agreed. Don't get me started! :-(

Do you prefer to see the world burn...?

False dilemma. And note that Davey/it says "Land-based". We (The
Netherlands) are a (very) small country and have one of the largest - if
not the largest - conglomerate of at-sea windfarms and justifiably so
(i.e. the lesser of the evils). As to land-based wind turbines, as I
said, don't get me started. Proponents have no clue (read: don't want to
hear) about all the negatives, and no, I do *not* mean 'just' horizon
pollution and audible sound.
EOD.

Shame. Would have liked to hear all your negatives. I have no issues with
them and being in Scotland we have a lot of off-share and on-shore
windfarms.

You don't mention your reservations on ULEZ, but again in Scotland all the
main cities have them.

[Chris]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Chris

Post by Jan K.

Post by bad sector

Post by Andrew
Given Apple hates the consumer (but loves their money), this is a good
thing since Apple has abused its (admittedly loyal) consumers for too long.
*EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force*
<https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241228-eu-law-mandating-universal-
chargers-for-devices-comes-into-force>
This Saturday is the day Apple's executives saying they were "terrified" of
interoperating with non-Apple devices begins to (finally) come into force.

Good move but it has a snag; it will only perpetuate the USB inteface
wich (after microcancer $trangleware) is the worst piece of shit the
industry has ever produced.

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision
sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit.
The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers,
especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their
proprietary Lightning port.
Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know,
what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).

Which almost no-one made use of and the only "feature" of it was that
phones regularly broke into three pieces every time they were dropped.
It's cheap to replace batteries currently. Not sure what benefit mandating
it will have.

It is not only phones. I had to replace the battery in my Kobo touch
ebook, and it was difficult.
So yes, I welcome that law a lot.

I agree with other devices there are benefits. Particularly, the smaller
things like earpods or smartwatches. I don't understand why people accept
spending hundreds on essentially disposable products.

[Andrew]

Post by Chris

Post by Carlos E.R.
So yes, I welcome that law a lot.

I agree with other devices there are benefits. Particularly, the smaller
things like earpods or smartwatches. I don't understand why people accept
spending hundreds on essentially disposable products.

There's a reason EU regulations forbid Apple selling any new iPhones prior
to the iPhone 15 in Europe (because of Apple's cheap iPhone batteries).

While almost every major Android brand easily proved to be *double* the
minimum battery life specified by the EU regulations, these latest iPhones
*barely* squeak by (which shows, as usual, how much *Apple hates you*).

Apple has no intention of allowing the consumer the luxury of long device
life without having to replace the battery just to keep the iPhone alive.

[Alan]

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris

Post by Carlos E.R.
So yes, I welcome that law a lot.

I agree with other devices there are benefits. Particularly, the smaller
things like earpods or smartwatches. I don't understand why people accept
spending hundreds on essentially disposable products.

There's a reason EU regulations forbid Apple selling any new iPhones prior
to the iPhone 15 in Europe (because of Apple's cheap iPhone batteries).
While almost every major Android brand easily proved to be *double* the
minimum battery life specified by the EU regulations, these latest iPhones
*barely* squeak by (which shows, as usual, how much *Apple hates you*).

Utterly false, everyone.

[Alan]

Post by Andrew

Post by Chris

Post by Carlos E.R.
So yes, I welcome that law a lot.

I agree with other devices there are benefits. Particularly, the smaller
things like earpods or smartwatches. I don't understand why people accept
spending hundreds on essentially disposable products.

There's a reason EU regulations forbid Apple selling any new iPhones prior
to the iPhone 15 in Europe (because of Apple's cheap iPhone batteries).

False.

The EU has mandated the USB-C port for charging and the first iPhone to
use it was the iPhone 15.

Post by Andrew
While almost every major Android brand easily proved to be *double* the
minimum battery life specified by the EU regulations, these latest iPhones
*barely* squeak by (which shows, as usual, how much *Apple hates you*).

This is also false.

Post by Andrew
Apple has no intention of allowing the consumer the luxury of long device
life without having to replace the battery just to keep the iPhone alive.

Battery life is measured in charging cycles.

How many years of use you get from a battery depends on how often you
need to charge it.

If a phone has a battery that is only good for (say) 1,000 charging
cycles, and it only runs for one day on a full charge, then you're going
to need a new battery in about 2 years 9 months.

If a phone with the very same battery could last for two days on a
charge, then you'd need a new battery in 5 years 6 months.

So, you see, battery life in terms of replacement very much depends on
battery life in terms of run time.

iPhones have among the best run times in the entire smartphone industry:

Best phone battery life at a glance (hours:minutes)

Asus ROG Phone 9 Pro: 20:34
Asus ROG Phone 8 Pro: 18:48
OnePlus 12R: 18:08

iPhone 16 Pro Max: 17:17

OnePlus 12: 17:05
Asus Zenfone 11 Ultra: 17:01
Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra: 16:45

iPhone 16 Plus: 16:29

Samsung Galaxy S24 Plus: 15:58
Moto G Stylus 5G (2024): 15:01
CMF Phone 1: 14:47
Moto G 5G (2024): 14:36
Nothing Phone 2a: 14:28

iPhone 15 Plus: 14:14

Motorola Razr Plus (2024): 14:10

<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/smartphones-best-battery-life,review-2857.html>


From GSMArena:

1 Apple iPhone 16 Plus
6 Apple iPhone 16 Pro Max
13 Apple iPhone 15 Plus
18 Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max
20 Apple iPhone 16
39 Apple iPhone 16 Pro
65 Apple iPhone 15
74 Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Out a total of 165 smartphones they list.

<https://www.gsmarena.com/battery-test-v2.php3>

[Stan Brown]

Post by Jan K.
It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union
of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the
world's largest single consumer market (500 million people),

If you ignore India and China.